Message-ID: <39BF16D6.3202A19F@math.bas.bg>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 08:55:34 +0300
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To: lojban@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] ... and rape
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From: Ivan A Derzhanski <iad@MATH.BAS.BG>
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"Mark E. Shoulson" wrote:
> For no satisfactory reason, I was puttering
> with translating "rape" into Lojban, and generally non-consent.
[...]
> Well, generally, finding a word for "non-consensual" isn't easy!
> {zifre} is glossed as "willingly," but its definition doesn't mean
> that; I can't take {tolzifre} to mean "unwillingly" but "required."

Make sure you don't lose track of what applies to whom.  The one who
is known to be participating unwillingly is the rapee.  (The rapist
may also -- you can force someone to rape someone else -- but that's
not the point.)

> We need the (futile) *resistance* to such force in this case [...].

Do we?  Surely resistance is not always there.

> Other choices include {vlile}--which could just mean violent but
> consensual,

I don't think so.  Look at the definition: `x1 is an event/state/act
of violence'.  Do you think that covers sadomasochism?


John Cowan wrote:
> How about "narcrugle" from "na curmi gletu", with place structure
> "x1 does not permit that x1 copulates with x2"?

And whence does it follow that the said act does take place in spite
of x1's failure to permit it?  The definition of {curmi} (`x1 (agent)
lets/permits/allows x2 (event) under conditions x3; x1 grants
privilege x2') makes it sound as though if the privilege is not
granted, the event doesn't happen.

--Ivan