From jjllambias@hotmail.com Mon Feb 12 15:39:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@onelist.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 12 Feb 2001 23:38:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 44281 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 23:38:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Feb 2001 23:38:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.21) by mta3 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 00:39:47 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:38:42 -0800 Received: from 200.41.210.14 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 23:38:42 GMT X-Originating-IP: [200.41.210.14] To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] RE: imaginary worlds etc. Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 23:38:42 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Feb 2001 23:38:42.0782 (UTC) FILETIME=[EF18FFE0:01C0954C] From: "Jorge Llambias" X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 5446 la xod cusku di'e >The idea refers to particles. If two particles have the same exact sets of >observable properties (spin, momentum, etc) they are interchangable and >subject to a certain approach (B-E statistics, if I recall.) More or less. Particles can follow Bose-Einstein statistics (in which case they're called bosons, e.g. photons) which means that there can be as many as you like occupying the exact same quantum state, or they can follow Fermi-Dirac statistics (in which case they are fermions, e.g. electrons) and then there can be no more than one of them occupying a given quantum state. >I fail to see how speculation on the properties and differences between >worlds that DO NOT exist can help us understand anything in this one. They >do not, and in a real sense could not exist! If we want to tie our logic >to observed reality and derive useable results, we are obliged to ignore >such fiction. The imaginary worlds talk is just a means to reason about hypotheticals and such, it's not about the actual existence of those worlds. For example, compare these two sentences: (1) If you had come five minutes earlier you would have met her. (2) If you had come five minutes earlier pigs would fly. We want (1) to be true and (2) to be false, but if we translate into Lojban using {naja} we get both to be true. One way out of this is to see what happens in the imaginary worlds where you do come five minutes earlier. In those worlds, you meet her but pigs don't fly. That's the easy part. The difficult part is how to select those worlds, because it is not that difficult to imagine worlds where you do come earlier but you still don't meet her, somehow you have to restrict the possible variation of the imaginary worlds from the real world, which to me seems to mean that all we did is kick the problem a little further. (And also we have to make sure of excluding from consideration worlds where pigs do fly.) co'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.