From swiftrain@GEOCITIES.COM Wed Mar 21 00:59:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: swiftrain@geocities.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 21 Mar 2001 08:59:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 96283 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 08:59:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 21 Mar 2001 08:59:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chmls06.mediaone.net) (24.147.1.144) by mta2 with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 08:59:35 -0000 Received: from geocities.com (h002078d5b1ce.ne.mediaone.net [66.30.64.193]) by chmls06.mediaone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f2L8xYU16073 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 03:59:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3AB86B0C.8492EA9@geocities.com> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 03:49:16 -0500 Organization: love X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Knowledge (was: Random lojban questions/annoyances References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: SwiftRain X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 6091 Jorge Llambias wrote: > > I don't know about default. All places that are not filled explicitly > have to be understood as filled with whatever the speaker has in > mind, and of course the speaker has to make sure of providing enough > context for the audience to work out what that is. In that sense, > yes, the unfilled x4 should usually correspond to the speaker's > epistemology. .iero'e No one is thinking Lojbanically in this discussion. I have even sighted the ghost of Webster floating about. Dear me. "da de djuno" means "da de zo'e zo'e djuno" not "da de zu'i zu'i djuno" The best way to tell what a Lojban word means is its places. Zo djuno has a place for subject and a place for epistemology, so it clearly allows for knowledge which is true only relative to a particular subject or under a particular epistemology. If a use of zo djuno strikes us as strange, we should try saying: "djuno fi ma?" -- you know that about what? or "djuno fo ma?" -- how do you "know" that? .i lisri fe lo lojbo tixnu goi ko'a fa lu .i ko'a cusku lu .i zanpa'u! .i zanpa'u! .i mi djuno le du'u zasti fa lo jirna xirma! li'u .i le patfu cu spuda la'edi'u le nu cusku lu .i .ienairo'e xu go'i sai?! .i do djuno fo ma? li'u .i cusku fa ko'a fe lu .i mi djuno fo le vi lisri cukta li'u .i le patfu cu cisma je cusku lu .ua fo le vi lisycku ku ja'a djuno fa do li'u li'u a story about a lojbanic daughter: she says "papa! papa! i know that unicorns exist!" the father replies, "really?! i don't believe it! under what epistemology do unicorns exist?!" "the epistemology of this here story book," says she. "ah!" says the father, "according to this book, unicorns do indeed exist." That ought to satisfy everyone, if you ask me. And ji'a it proves the du'u that Lojban makes kids smarter, at least so far as one kricis my story. "Djuno fo" is a lot easier to say than "know under the epistemology of." .imi'e.bret.