From jjllambias@hotmail.com Wed Mar 28 15:31:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@onelist.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 28 Mar 2001 23:31:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 44618 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2001 23:31:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 28 Mar 2001 23:31:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.64) by mta3 with SMTP; 29 Mar 2001 00:32:33 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 15:31:29 -0800 Received: from 200.41.210.25 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 23:31:29 GMT X-Originating-IP: [200.41.210.25] To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Aussies [Re: djuno: the key issue (was: Re: Fwd: Re: [lojban] Random lojban questions/...] Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 23:31:29 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Mar 2001 23:31:29.0432 (UTC) FILETIME=[36FA0980:01C0B7DF] From: "Jorge Llambias" X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 6299 > > So if on the basis > > of our common epistemology you believed that Sydney was the capital > > of Australia, I could say "John djuno that Sydney is the cap. of A, fo > > our mutual epistemology"? > >Umm, isn't it? Robin thought that Sydney is the capital of Australia. And knew that Canberra is the capital of Australia. I don't think anyone who knows what the capital of Australia is would say that "Robin knew that Sydney is the capital of Australia". Anyway, what about "doesn't know"? Interestingly enough, "doesn't know" also requires in English that the "unknowledge" be true. I can say: Robin didn't know that Canberra is the capital of Australia. But I can't say either of these: *And didn't know that Sydney is the capital of Australia. *Robin didn't know that Sydney is the capital of Australia. In Lojban, however, negation as often works quite differently than in English. So I can use {na djuno} as in those sentences and they'd be true. (The first one because And didn't believe the subclause, the second one because the subclause is false.) So how do we translate into Lojban the English "doesn't know" or "ignores", which require a true complement? I think it's {toldjuno}: cy pu toldjuno le du'u la kanberys cu trutca le sralygu'e co'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.