From pycyn@aol.com Mon Apr 09 09:26:34 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: Pycyn@aol.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 9 Apr 2001 16:26:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 27227 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 16:26:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Apr 2001 16:26:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m04.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.7) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Apr 2001 16:26:32 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.14.) id r.9.13a1fc32 (4543) for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 12:26:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9.13a1fc32.28033cac@aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 12:26:20 EDT Subject: Re: toldjuno To: lojban@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_9.13a1fc32.28033cac_boundary" Content-Disposition: Inline X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10519 From: pycyn@aol.com X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 6450 --part1_9.13a1fc32.28033cac_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Somewhere recently xorxes noted that "know" at least has the peculiarity that to say someonne does not know x implies that x is true as much as to say that someone does know x. He noted correctly that this does not carry over to {djuno}, since {na djuno} literally gives the disjunction of the denials of the conjunctive components of {djuno}, one of which is that the claimed knowledge is true. So he proposed {toldjuno} for the corresponding expression. I canot remember (nor find) whetehr he specificed its English, but it should be "x1 is ignorant of x2 about x3 in epistemology x4." It also has the condition that x2 is true in x4, like {djuno}: x1 toldjuno x2 x3 x4 .ijo ge x1 na djuno x2 x3 x4 gige da djuno x2 x3 x4 gi x1 djuno de di x4 --part1_9.13a1fc32.28033cac_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Somewhere recently xorxes noted that "know" at least has the peculiarity that
to say someonne does not know x implies that x is true as much as to say that
someone does know x.  He noted correctly that this does not carry over to
{djuno}, since {na djuno} literally gives the disjunction of the denials of
the conjunctive components of {djuno}, one of which is that the claimed
knowledge is true.  So he proposed {toldjuno} for the corresponding
expression.  I canot remember (nor find) whetehr he specificed its English,
but it should be "x1 is ignorant of x2 about x3 in epistemology x4." It also
has the condition that x2 is true in x4, like {djuno}:
x1 toldjuno x2 x3 x4 .ijo ge x1 na djuno x2 x3 x4 gige da djuno x2 x3 x4 gi
x1 djuno de di x4 --part1_9.13a1fc32.28033cac_boundary--