From jjllambias@hotmail.com Thu Apr 19 16:52:23 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@onelist.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 19 Apr 2001 23:52:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 89414 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2001 23:52:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Apr 2001 23:52:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.64) by mta1 with SMTP; 19 Apr 2001 23:52:22 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 16:52:21 -0700 Received: from 200.41.210.24 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 23:52:21 GMT X-Originating-IP: [200.41.210.24] To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [lojban] Q Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 23:52:21 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Apr 2001 23:52:21.0896 (UTC) FILETIME=[C6976080:01C0C92B] From: "Jorge Llambias" X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 6708 la and cusku di'e > x1 describes x2 > x1 discusses x2 > x1 notices similarities among members of x2 > &c. > >-- in all these, x2 could equally well be a nu or a ka or >a du'u. Right, and also there is the typical "x1 likes x2", in which people are said to like the strangest things. I agree there is a possible distinction to be made between discussing a proposition and discussing an event that the proposition describes, but such cases are really rare. In all of the above examples the most natural interpretation would put a nu in the x2, and when you wanted something else you could say {le jufra be le nu ...} and things like that. >But yes, the distinction is usually redundant. On the other hand, redundancy is not necessarily bad, sometimes it can be helpful. If you are not sure about the meaning of some predicate, the fact that a nu or a du'u or a ka is used in a given place can be a clue as to the meaning of the predicate. But sometimes it is a pain. For example, I have seen both {le nu ... cu krinu le nu ...} and {le du'u ... cu krinu le du'u ...}. I don't remember seeing a mix of nu in one of the places and du'u in the other, but I might. I have no idea which one is right, they both mean the same thing as far as I can tell. And like that one there are plenty of others that make me stop and choose when there is no point in having to choose. co'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.