From pycyn@aol.com Fri May 25 18:37:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: Pycyn@aol.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 26 May 2001 01:37:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 6839 invoked from network); 26 May 2001 01:37:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 26 May 2001 01:37:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d05.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.37) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 May 2001 01:37:12 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id r.8.14e9300b (25103) for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 21:37:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8.14e9300b.284062c2@aol.com> Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 21:37:06 EDT Subject: Re: loi (was Re: [lojban] Rosetta Project Genesis translation) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_8.14e9300b.284062c2_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10519 From: pycyn@aol.com X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 7269 --part1_8.14e9300b.284062c2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/25/2001 5:59:12 PM Central Daylight Time, rob@twcny.rr.com writes: > I have no idea what "gavaggai" means, and how does naming this bizarre > concept > "Mr. Rabbit" help at all? What does the Mr. mean? Sorry! I lose track of where everyone is in pursuing these issues. The story (from Malinowski through Quine) is that Trobriand Islanders see all rabbits (for examples) as being one super rabbit (the sense of "Mr.", I suppose, more physical than Plato's rabbit-its-own-self), who is totally present wherever a rabbit is and so does all that any rabbit does -- as we would put it. But our putting it that way misses what the Trobriander means when he says (I don't know whether this is authentic) "gavagai" which is not "There goes a rabbit" but "Lo, Mr. Rabbit." And that Mr. Rabbit is one of the things that {loi ractu} means. Or, as I would want to say, is one of the metaphors to explain how {loi ractu} works. If it doesn't help, I have some more. > > A third part is the disambiguation of sentences like "Chicagoans drink > more > > beer tha New Yorkers" > > Wouldn't that use lo'e or le'e? > The sentence is at least three ways ambiguous: Each C drinks more than each NY, the typical C drinks more than the typical NY (and that could be two, depending on which of the two readings of {le'e} you go with), or the Cs altogether drink moe than the NY altogether. The last is {loi}. --part1_8.14e9300b.284062c2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/25/2001 5:59:12 PM Central Daylight Time,
rob@twcny.rr.com writes:


I have no idea what "gavaggai" means, and how does naming this bizarre
concept
"Mr. Rabbit" help at all? What does the Mr. mean?

Sorry!  I lose track of where everyone is in pursuing these issues.  The
story (from Malinowski through Quine) is that Trobriand Islanders  see all
rabbits (for examples) as being one super rabbit (the sense of "Mr.", I
suppose, more physical than Plato's rabbit-its-own-self), who is totally
present wherever a rabbit is and so does all that any rabbit does -- as we
would put it.  But our putting it that way misses what the Trobriander means
when he says (I don't know whether this is authentic) "gavagai" which is not
"There goes a rabbit" but "Lo, Mr. Rabbit."  And that Mr. Rabbit is one of
the things that {loi ractu} means.  Or, as I would want to say, is one of the
metaphors to explain how {loi ractu} works.  If it doesn't help, I have some
more.

> A third part is the disambiguation of sentences like "Chicagoans drink
more
> beer tha New Yorkers"

Wouldn't that use lo'e or le'e?

The sentence is at least three ways ambiguous: Each C drinks more than each
NY,
the typical C drinks more than the typical NY (and that could be two,
depending on which of the two readings of {le'e} you  go with), or the Cs
altogether drink moe than the NY altogether.  The last is {loi}.
--part1_8.14e9300b.284062c2_boundary--