From pycyn@aol.com Thu Jun 21 09:46:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: Pycyn@aol.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 21 Jun 2001 16:46:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 61202 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2001 16:45:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Jun 2001 16:45:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r01.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.97) by mta2 with SMTP; 21 Jun 2001 16:45:28 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id r.26.1720ee9b (4006) for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 12:45:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <26.1720ee9b.28637e9d@aol.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 12:45:17 EDT Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: kona, but not the coffee To: lojban@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_26.1720ee9b.28637e9d_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10519 From: pycyn@aol.com X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 8209 --part1_26.1720ee9b.28637e9d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry about this, but I seem to get stuff all out of order: originals=20 longafter comments, for one annoying example. In a message dated 6/17/2001 7:04:20 PM Central Daylight Time,=20 araizen@newmail.net writes: > i mi puzu stidi le du'u to ji'a ba'anai ro spuda po'u la xorxes po'o > pe'i cu tugni mi toi zo ko sinxa la'e zo do poi se tcita lo selcni > valsi to ra'u lei valsi poi me'o ebu cu pamoi lerfu toi noi so'iroi > na'e se cusku i pe'i filseljmirai fa le du'u cusku le selcni valsi uke > zo do jikau zo ko i le nu pilno le selcni valsi cu sucta i mapti le nu > tavla fi le tavla to zo mi e zo mi'o toi e le selta'a to zo do e zo ko > toi e le nalsnu to zo ko'a e le simsa toi i zo ko cu mapti le nu tavla > fi le selta'a po'o >=20 But 1) {ko} is specific to imperative mode: its primary use is exactly=20 coextensive with that mode. 2) the referent of {ko} defaults to that of {do} but {ko} is=20 assignable, as we learned in an earlier thread, to any nameable group or=20 object I'm not sure I follow the rest: how does {ko} fit talking about the topic o= f=20 conversation only? On Sun, Jun 17, 2001 at 11:33:08AM -0400, pycyn@aol.com wrote: > > One way to mark=20 > > directives in Lojban is to use {ko} ({e'o} and {e'u} also work). >=20 > One thing that distresses me is to see {e'o} and {e'u} used in place of {ko} > just because {ko} seems too "harsh".> {e'u} and {e'o} seem to have different (but not clear how) functions from=20 imperatives, but functioons that can be *combined with* imperatives to=20 "soften" them. That whole range of directive language needs analysis, but = I=20 think it has to wait until there is some clear Lojban usage to analyze --=20 English is clearly NOT going to help here. --part1_26.1720ee9b.28637e9d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry about this, but I seem to get stuff all out of order: originals=20
longafter comments, for one annoying example.
In a message dated 6/17/2001 7:04:20 PM Central Daylight Time,=20
araizen@newmail.net writes:


i mi puzu stidi le du'u t= o ji'a ba'anai ro spuda po'u la xorxes po'o
pe'i cu tugni mi toi zo ko sinxa la'e zo do poi se tcita lo selcni
valsi to ra'u lei valsi poi me'o ebu cu pamoi lerfu toi noi so'iroi
na'e se cusku i pe'i filseljmirai fa le du'u cusku le selcni valsi uke
zo do jikau zo ko i le nu pilno le selcni valsi cu sucta i mapti le nu
tavla fi le tavla to zo mi e zo mi'o toi e le selta'a to zo do e zo ko
toi e le nalsnu to zo ko'a e le simsa toi i zo ko cu mapti le nu tavla
fi le selta'a po'o


But 1) {ko} is specific to imperative mode: its primary use is exactly= =20
coextensive with that mode.
      2) the referent of {ko} defaults t= o that of {do} but {ko} is=20
assignable, as we learned in an earlier thread, to any nameable group o= r=20
object

I'm not sure I follow the rest: how does {ko} fit talking about the top= ic of=20
conversation only?

<Subj: [lojban] Re: kona, but not the coffee=20=20=20
Date: 6/17/2001 7:04:20 PM Central Daylight Time=20=20
From:=A0 =A0 araizen@newmail.net (Adam Raizen)
To:=A0 =A0 lojban@yahoogroups.com
=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20


la rab spir cusku di'e

> On Sun, Jun 17, 2001 at 11:33:08AM -0400, pycyn@aol.com wrote:
> > One way to mark=20
> > directives in Lojban is to use {ko} ({e'o} and {e'u} also wor= k).
>=20
> One thing that distresses me is to see {e'o} and {e'u} used in pla= ce
of {ko}
> just because {ko} seems too "harsh".>

{e'u} and {e'o} seem to have different (but not clear how) functions fr= om=20
imperatives, but functioons that can be *combined with* imperatives to= =20
"soften" them.  That whole range of directive language needs analy= sis, but I=20
think it has to wait until there is some clear Lojban usage to analyze = --=20
English is clearly NOT going to help here. --part1_26.1720ee9b.28637e9d_boundary--