From xod@sixgirls.org Fri Jun 08 15:52:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: xod@reva.sixgirls.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 8 Jun 2001 22:52:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 2926 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 22:52:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Jun 2001 22:52:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO reva.sixgirls.org) (64.152.7.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 22:52:58 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by reva.sixgirls.org (8.11.3/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f58Mqwb03065 for ; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 18:52:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 18:52:57 -0400 (EDT) To: Subject: RE: [lojban] Poetry In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Invent Yourself X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 7671 cizra je tolslabu .i la'a mi pu'o nelci .i xu lojbo po'o .i ru'a le glico xelfanva ca'a tolmelbi On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Craig wrote: > How would you translate my example? If I tried, I'd go with: > Aha! Gain! Aha! Gain! > Wow! Wow! Yay! Gain! > Not-no! Aha! Yay! Gain! > Which doesn't make any sense in English, whereas in lojban. it is a > gramatically correct string of attitudinal indicators which precisely define > a specific emotion - a sense of discovering something wonderful. Now as for > your question about the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, it would be a proof, but an > attitudinal poem is meaningless in isolation in any language except > lojban. - and as soon as you attach it to any statement it becomes no more a > proof of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis than the mere existence of attitudinal > indicators is. But the fact that lojban. can create a text which has no > meaning in the mindsets of most languages but in lojban. is a precise > description of an emotion - that is not proof but it is certainly some > pretty good evidence. > I have another poem, by the way. If anyone gets tired of these, let me know. > I'm posting my early ones in the hope that I'll get better with practice, or > if I don't modify the form to make there be more room to get better. These > also make good lojban. tounge twisters - just try reading it aloud ten times > fast... > > .u'e.u'i.u'i > .o'a.o'u.u'i > .a'u.i'o.u'i > > of course, attitudinals claim precisely nothing, which means that both my > poems best translate as: > > > > That's the beauty of it - a non-lojbanist finds no meaning in not actually > saying anything. To me, at least, it can be poetic. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob LeChevalier (lojbab) [mailto:lojbab@lojban.org] > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 3:02 PM > To: lojban@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [lojban] Poetry > > > At 11:33 AM 06/08/2001 -0400, Craig wrote: > >coi rodo > > > > I had an idea for a lojban poetic verseform which is unique among > > poetic > >styles I have seen so far, both in that it cannot be translated to English > >and in that it uses no gismu. > > Now that is an interesting question: if we could find something like this > in Lojban that is meaningful and indeed cannot be translated into other > languages, would that be evidence for a strong form of the Sapir-Whorf > hypothesis? > > I suspect, however, that this poetry COULD be translated into English, but > perhaps not retaining the verse-form. > > lojbab > -- > lojbab lojbab@lojban.org > Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. > 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 > Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ----- We do not like And if a cat those Rs and Ds, needed a hat? Who can't resist Free enterprise more subsidies. is there for that!