From xod@sixgirls.org Fri Jun 08 08:47:25 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: xod@reva.sixgirls.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 8 Jun 2001 15:47:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 22805 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 15:47:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Jun 2001 15:47:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO reva.sixgirls.org) (64.152.7.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 15:47:23 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by reva.sixgirls.org (8.11.3/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f58FlLV00500 for ; Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:47:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:47:21 -0400 (EDT) To: Subject: Re: [lojban] re: rabbity sand-laugher In-Reply-To: <69.166a5a35.28516924@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE From: Invent Yourself X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 7653 On Thu, 7 Jun 2001 pycyn@aol.com wrote: > some missent items > > In a message dated 6/6/2001 1:32:35 PM Central Daylight Time, > rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org writes: > > > > He stated what he believed to be your opinion. =A0The truth value has o= nly > > to do whith whether the statement is true from some point of view, sinc= e > > it's an opinion statement, IIRC. =A0He made it clear, IMO, tho the poin= t > > of view in question was not his own. =A0So the truth of the bridi depen= ds > > on the opinion of whomever he was empathizing with. > > > An interesting -- and, it now appears, permissible -- point of view. =A0W= ell, > almost. =A0If its truth depends upon my point of view and so on, then he = can't > attack the claim, as the book says, since it is selfly true. =A0On the ot= her > hand, if the evidential function as intended (in Native American language= s > and Laadan) then he himself has asserted it and on weak evidence indeed (= his > idea of someone else's opinion). =A0The only way to make tyhe sentence > pragmatically sound is to look at one interpretation for one part -- the > statement is made and I object to it -- and another interpretation for th= e > other part -- someone else made the statement so don't blame me. =A0This = is > equivocation at best, and stupidity at worst. Or the other way round -- I > never am clear whether it is worse to call someone an idiot or a cheat. > =A0Actually, I don't think either applies -- to xod. =A0The book turns ou= t to be > so screwed up on this issue -- which I remember as being pretty well clea= red > up several times over the past years and certainly is in the logical > literature -- that he can't really be blamed for not getting it right. = =A0The > present set-up doesn't allow anyone to get it right, for each choice made= is > wrong on some place in the chapter. doi ro .i pe'i le si'o zo dai mapti le seltavla selcinmo cu traji le kamselpilno .iseni'ibo lu do jinvi li'u smuni lu pe'idai =A0As it says somewhere in there, none of > this can be used to decide correct use. =A0One does not expect that low-t= ail > excuse to come out in the textbook! > Discussion coming on my webpage, but I have to clean the basement, too. > > In a message dated 6/6/2001 4:28:02 PM Central Daylight Time, > rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org writes: > > > > > You appear to be ipmlying that people are not corrected on the list, > > that everyone but you simply lavishes praise indiscriminately. > > > > This leads me to wonder what list you've been reading. > > > > > > Sorry, I did not know the study was done on this list -- which has no > children on it, as far as I know. =A0I did not say anything about this li= st -- > is this where xod thinks the inexpert and undeveloped teaching is done. > =A0Shame on him! .i'enai .i mi ba'o cusku zo cilre .enai zo ctuca > Actually, this is list has been pretty good up til now -- people get prai= sed > probably less often than they ought and they get nit-picked too much for = the > seriousnes of their offenses. =A0But under the new policy that everybody > (Lojbab, xod, Robin CA?) is advocating -- the fairly standard student > assumption in colleges these days and one administrators tend to support = -- > everybody will always get at least a passing grade, lest they leave the c= lub > (oh, horror!) and probably get their little egos massaged a bit on the si= de, > just in case. =A0Meanwhile, they will not learn the langauge nor even how= to do > a decent job of figuring out how to learn the langauge. =A0[This is stric= tly a > strawman, of course, but having been accused of doing something (unspecif= ied) > bad for lojbanders and Lojban, something that all are to be warned agains= t, I > feel entitled to a little rhetorical exageration too] .i .e'anai do tolsatci cusku .i le si'o nilcertu gradu na mapti le jboce'u .i pe'idai le tadni cu cilre va'o le za'i sfasa .i .ienaicai .i pe'i le jbocilre cu selferti le ka frili srera kei .e le zu'o kalte le tolslabu sidbo .i si'a le ni do tcidu srera kei zmadu le ni mi ciska srera .i mi ta'enai selsajgau ----- We do not like And if a cat those Rs and Ds, needed a hat? Who can't resist Free enterprise more subsidies. is there for that!