From arosta@uclan.ac.uk Tue Aug 21 11:53:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: arosta@uclan.ac.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 21 Aug 2001 18:53:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 92654 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2001 18:48:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Aug 2001 18:48:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO com1.uclan.ac.uk) (193.61.255.3) by mta1 with SMTP; 21 Aug 2001 18:48:34 -0000 Received: from gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk by com1.uclan.ac.uk with SMTP (Mailer); Tue, 21 Aug 2001 19:27:10 +0100 Received: from DI1-Message_Server by gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 19:53:58 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 19:53:21 +0100 To: lojban Subject: Re: du'u in lieu of ka (was: Re: [lojban] Toward a {ce'u} record Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline From: And Rosta X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 9869 Xod: #On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, And Rosta wrote: #> I agree, but there is a remedy within the baseline, so long as zo'e #> cannot be read as a ce'u (and if it can, then existing usage of #> du'u is unspeakably ambiguous): And The Cowan has averred #> that construing zo'e as ce'u is as heinous as construing it as #> noda. #> #> Since {du'u} doesn't guarantee the presence of a covert or overt #> ce'u, using {du'u ... ce'u} instead of {ka ... (ce'u)} forces all ce'u #> to be overt. Thus those of us who are rightly worried about the #> horrible vagueness/ambiguity of allowing covert ce'u within #> ka bridi can simply not use ka and use du'u instead. # #All around, this is the simplest and most elegant solution: ditch ka, use #du'u and some number of ce'u. But what about the kam- rafsi? It's too #useful to abandon. So "kambroda" means "broda-hood"? Why abandon something that is useful and not flawed? Use "kam-" but not "ka". BTW, I noticed after writing my message above that there seems to be a conflict between the following ruloids: Ruloid 1. Zo'e fills any empty place.=20 [I *think* this is somewhere in Woldy.] Ruloid 2. Zo'e cannot be construed as ce'u.=20 [Thus spake The Cowan, recently.] Ruloid 3. Ce'u can be elided. --And. ----- "I have never been active in politics or in any act against occupation, but the way the soldiers killed Mizyed has filled me with hatred and anger. Now I'm ready to carry out a suicide attack inside Israel," one of the witnesses said. To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com=20 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/=20