From a.rosta@ntlworld.com Sat Aug 04 17:57:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: a.rosta@ntlworld.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 5 Aug 2001 00:57:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 94054 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2001 00:57:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Aug 2001 00:57:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta02-svc.ntlworld.com) (62.253.162.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 5 Aug 2001 00:57:39 -0000 Received: from andrew ([62.255.43.93]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010805005737.ZSSB29790.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@andrew> for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2001 01:57:37 +0100 To: Subject: RE: [lojban] Transliterations survey Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 01:56:44 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "And Rosta" X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 9179 Nick: > Lojbanists, > > Please evaluate as voluminously as you can the following candidate > transliterations. Please only comment on an instance if you know the exact > pronunciation of the original. Feel free to try these on > mundanes^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hnon-Lojbanists. Ignore the fact that some of these > are not legal cmene. Anecdotes about transliterations of these placenames > in your native languages are also welcome. > > Muenchen (= Munich), Germany > > munxen. > miunxen. > minxen. John invented a rule whereby you ignore the rounding, which makes the first vowel a Lojban /i/. I was unpersuaded by it, though. Still, of the three, minxen sounds the best. However, /-xien/ would sound better, and /y/ in the first syll might be better than /i/: so, /mynxien/. Or maybe /miynxien/ > Koeln (= Cologne), Germany > > koln. > kioln. > keln. By the cowanian rule, /keln/. But I would defo go for /kyln/. Not only does it better reflect the phonetics, but also it better reflects the phoneme contrasts. > Cote d'Azur (= French Riviera), France > > kot.daZUR. > kot.daZIUR. > kot.daZIR. maybe /kotdaZIYR/? > > Villeneuve, France > > vilNOV. > vilNIOV. > vilNEV. /vilNYV/ > Fukushima, Japan > > fukucima. > fikicima. > fykycima. Not /fikicima/, since that would be Fikishima. Here I would go for /fukucima/, on phonological grounds. > DiyarbakIr, Turkey > > di,iarbaKUR. > di,iarbaKIR. > di,iarbaKYR. An intractable one, I think. -KUR by the Cowan rule. > Bourgogne (= Burgundy), France > > burGON. > burGONiy. > burGOIN. I reckon /burgoniy/ > Marseilles, France > > marSEL. > marSELiy. > marSEIL. > marSEI. /marSEI/ > Magyaroszag (= Hungary) > > MAdiarosag. > MAdjarosag. > MAgiarosag. > MAgarosag. To get really picky, it could be /-orsa,ag/. Phonetically, I prefer /MAdiar-/, but a phonological case could be made for /MAdjar-/. > Shqip"eria (= Albania) > > ctipyri,a. > ctiipyri,a. > ctcipyri,a. > ctciipyri,a. > ckipyri,a. > ckiipyri,a. > > Gjirokaste"r, Albania > > diROkastyr. > diiROkastyr. > djiROkastyr. > djiiROkastyr. > giROkastyr. > giiROkastyr. I haven't a clue. --And.