From a.rosta@ntlworld.com Tue Aug 07 18:06:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: a.rosta@ntlworld.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 8 Aug 2001 01:06:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 91262 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2001 01:06:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 8 Aug 2001 01:06:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta01-svc.ntlworld.com) (62.253.162.41) by mta2 with SMTP; 8 Aug 2001 01:06:40 -0000 Received: from andrew ([62.255.40.7]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010808010638.VOWO15984.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@andrew> for ; Wed, 8 Aug 2001 02:06:38 +0100 To: Subject: RE: [lojban] Transliterations survey Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 02:05:44 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010807012546.00cba430@pop.cais.com> From: "And Rosta" X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 9307 Lojbab: > At 01:13 AM 8/7/01 +0100, And Rosta wrote: > > > > > and (much more > > > > > contentiously) timicuara (Rumanian) rather than temecvar > (Hungarian). I > > > > > know full well this is not going to be looked on favourably. > > > > > > Do the residents themselves have a preference? > > > >This was Nick's point. The residents say temecvar and the local hegemony, > >which the residents resent, says timicuara. As with kwyBEK/keBEK, > >kataLONia/kataLUNia, LUNdynderi/DEri, either choice implies a certain > >ideology. > > What happens when there are multiple ideologies amongst the local > residents? Specifically, what happens when the educated local dialect > differs from the colloquial local dialect. You mean what happens in the local languages, or what happens in Lojban? In the local languages you get alternate names. In Lojban, the namer/translator decides. > > > Canonical means canonical to the residents; nolinz it should be, > > > regardless of what a damyankee thinks. > > > >Nick thinks differently. I think Nick should use the names he thinks > >best and you should use the names that you think best, and that this > >is an issue that we should consciously not be normative about. > > We still will have to decide what to put into the dictionary as > examples. One answer is to provide multiple answers based on the various > ideologies without making a choice (and of course "letting usage decide"). Examples should be uncontroversial ones, ideally. Controversial ones should indeed have multiple Lojban renditions. This is a different case of letting usage decide, because usage should be nonnormative here. --and.