From xod@sixgirls.org Thu Aug 23 16:52:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: xod@reva.sixgirls.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 23 Aug 2001 23:52:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 91144 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2001 23:50:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 Aug 2001 23:50:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO reva.sixgirls.org) (64.152.7.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 23 Aug 2001 23:50:14 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by reva.sixgirls.org (8.11.3/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f7NNoB921113 for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:50:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:50:11 -0400 (EDT) To: Subject: remoi malglico (was: A revised ce'u proposal involving si'o In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Invent Yourself X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 10011 On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, Nick NICHOLAS wrote: > > cu'u la xod. > > >Are we then agreeing that ka fasnu = si'o fasnu? > > Well, we were until pc came along. :-) I want to argue against And's proposal too, but my arguments are based on the differences between "relationship" or "quality", and "idea". They are not based on any differences between "ckaji le ka ce'u broda ce'u" and "sidbo". Here again, are we letting English concepts poison our understanding of similar-but-different gismu? This is what Nick did with cukta, and what I did with krici. The lesson is not to shut up, but to try to think outside the box imposed by English mindset. One level of malglico is using English grammar and idiom, but the second level, in which we still wallow, is using specific concepts from English imported into Lojban. One would think our non-English speaking friends could help us Anglos see this, but I suspect they are all so fluent in English that they too carry the memes, having learned Lojban from English, and may find it hard to think about Lojban in anything else. They are, for the purpose of this discussion, honorary Anglos. We need to start using Lojban in a non-English way. At the absolute least we should broaden our notions of all these jbovla so when the meanings evolve into more specific concepts, they have a chance of ending up elsewhere than their English keywords. ----- "It is not enough that an article is new and useful. The Constitution never sanctioned the patenting of gadgets. [...] It was never the object of those laws to grant a monopoly for every trifling device, every shadow of a shade of an idea, which would naturally and spontaneously occur to any skilled mechanic or operator in the ordinary progress of manufactures." -- Supreme Court Justice Douglas, 1950