From pycyn@aol.com Mon Aug 13 13:24:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: Pycyn@aol.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 13 Aug 2001 20:24:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 12565 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2001 20:23:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Aug 2001 20:23:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d04.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.36) by mta3 with SMTP; 13 Aug 2001 20:23:38 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id r.18.10af9bf9 (4555) for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2001 16:23:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <18.10af9bf9.28a99144@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 16:23:32 EDT Subject: Re: [lojban] New to lojban, any suggestions? To: lojban@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_18.10af9bf9.28a99144_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10531 From: pycyn@aol.com X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 9516 --part1_18.10af9bf9.28a99144_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The analogy fails precisely because an MS program isn't like a pencil (it's more like a book but not quite that either, I suppose). Yes, if you want to do all those things, then don't buy MS programs. But if you do have MS programs then don't do those things either. The point is, people do have MS programs and others don't. The vast majority do and are quiet about it, getting on with their work. A tiny group does not and talks about it way too much, claiming vast superiority for their pet system -- but pretty generally not being willing to do what would make that system available (in a real,as opposed to a "Well, you can get it off the net," sense). Nor to make the advantages of this system or of programs running on this system available to people who, for whatever blind reason, refuse to change from MS. But they are never shy about pooh-poohing anything that has worked for years longer than their system has been in existence for ten time the number of people who have even heard of their system. In practical terms this is bad planning on their part, since it decreases the probability that their system will eventually come to occupy a significant role for computer users generally. It is especially bad for Lojban, since our growth is almost entirely computer based and alienating 90% of that base is not a good strategy for growth. As you say, some people use MS, some don't. Let's let each use what they want or need to use and try to accomodate them equally (we've gotten a lot better on that lately, by the way, with Robin -- for all his puffery -- doing good lead work) and not cast random asparagus on either side. --part1_18.10af9bf9.28a99144_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The analogy fails precisely because an MS program isn't like a pencil (it's
more like a book but not quite that either, I suppose).  Yes, if you want to
do all those things, then don't buy MS programs.  But if you do have MS
programs then don't do those things either.  
The point is, people do have MS programs and others don't.  The vast majority
do and are quiet about it, getting on with their work.  A tiny group does not
and talks about it way too much, claiming vast superiority for their pet
system -- but pretty generally not being willing to do what would make that
system available (in a real,as opposed to a "Well, you can get it off the
net," sense).  Nor to make the advantages of this system or of programs
running on this system available to people who, for whatever blind reason,
refuse to change from MS.  But they are never shy about pooh-poohing anything
that has worked for years longer than their system has been in existence for
ten time the number of people who have even heard of their system.
In practical terms this is bad planning on their part, since it decreases the
probability that their system will eventually come to occupy a significant
role for computer users generally.  It is especially bad for Lojban, since
our growth is almost entirely computer based and alienating 90% of that base
is not a good strategy for growth.
As you say, some people use MS, some don't. Let's let each use what they want
or need to use and try to accomodate them equally (we've gotten a lot better
on that lately, by the way, with Robin -- for all his puffery -- doing good
lead work) and not cast random asparagus on either side.   --part1_18.10af9bf9.28a99144_boundary--