From drewcifer@knology.net Mon Aug 13 13:42:34 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: drew@knology.net X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 13 Aug 2001 20:42:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 62330 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2001 20:42:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Aug 2001 20:42:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO localhost.localdomain) (24.214.88.60) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Aug 2001 20:42:25 -0000 Received: from drew by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 15WOXx-0006il-00; Mon, 13 Aug 2001 15:42:49 -0500 Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 15:42:49 -0500 To: pycyn@aol.com Cc: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] New to lojban, any suggestions? Message-ID: <20010813154249.A25809@localhost.localdomain> Reply-To: drewcifer@knology.net References: <18.10af9bf9.28a99144@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <18.10af9bf9.28a99144@aol.com>; from pycyn@aol.com on Mon, Aug 13, 2001 at 04:23:32PM -0400 X-Disclaimer: Please don't send me HTML formatted email. Sender: "Andrew D. McDowell" From: Andrew McDowell X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 9521 On Mon, Aug 13, 2001 at 04:23:32PM -0400, pycyn@aol.com wrote: |: The analogy fails precisely because an MS program isn't like a pencil |: (it's |: more like a book but not quite that either, I suppose). Yes, if you |: want to |: do all those things, then don't buy MS programs. But if you do have |: MS |: programs then don't do those things either. I think the complaint was made precicsly because he chose not to use MS products. |: do and are quiet about it, getting on with their work. A tiny group |: does not |: and talks about it way too much, claiming vast superiority for their |: pet |: system -- but pretty generally not being willing to do what would make |: that |: system available (in a real,as opposed to a "Well, you can get it off |: the |: net," sense). There are _many_ Linux distributions out there. Some of which you can buy convieniently online, at Best Buy, or even Wal-Mart. I think that's pretty available. |: Nor to make the advantages of this system or of |: programs |: running on this system available to people who, for whatever blind |: reason, |: refuse to change from MS. As opposed to people who refuse to change to from Linux? (and it's alot cheaper to switch to Linux) |: But they are never shy about pooh-poohing |: anything |: that has worked for years longer than their system has been in |: existence for |: ten time the number of people who have even heard of their system. Linux has been arround for 10-ish years, and UNIX for 40ish? (Correct me if I'm wrong.) How long has DOS/Win95/WinNT/Win2k been arround? And if sheer numbers of users is the hallmark of a good OS, then we should be running something like VxWorks or one of the other embedded OS's that power your bank teller, car, and gas pumps. |: In practical terms this is bad planning on their part, since it |: decreases the |: probability that their system will eventually come to occupy a |: significant |: role for computer users generally. It is especially bad for Lojban, |: since |: our growth is almost entirely computer based and alienating 90% of |: that base |: is not a good strategy for growth. According to most of the industry rags, Linux has the second fastest growing market out there. Outpaceing it's competition (other Unixes) by a factor of ~2, and passing MacOS for the number of total users. I think Lojban would do well to imitate it's success. |: As you say, some people use MS, some don't. Let's let each use what |: they want |: or need to use and try to accomodate them equally (we've gotten a lot |: better |: on that lately, by the way, with Robin -- for all his puffery -- doing |: good |: lead work) and not cast random asparagus on either side. Here here. -Drew