From Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de Wed Oct 17 11:18:28 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 17 Oct 2001 18:18:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 99191 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2001 18:18:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.221 with QMQP; 17 Oct 2001 18:18:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.45) by mta1 with SMTP; 17 Oct 2001 18:18:27 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de Received: from [10.1.10.126] by n6.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Oct 2001 18:18:27 -0000 Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 18:18:26 -0000 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Issachar Message-ID: <9qki1i+p0l0@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <01101611240419.02047@neofelis> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1413 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 62.104.218.30 From: "A.W.T." X-Yahoo-Profile: aolung X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 11601 --- In lojban@y..., Pierre Abbat wrote: > "Issachar" is spelled in a funny way in Hebrew: it has two sin.bu, one of > which has no vowel at all, not even a schwa. Normally a double consonant > sound is indicated by writing the consonant once with a dagesh in it. As a > result, it is sometimes transliterated "Isaschar". Should it be {isaxar} or > {isasxar}? You're right, the spelling is quite astonishing - kind of arbitrary like English or Gaelic orthography :-) It's even more complicated as described by you: with three sin (sin+dagesh forte, sin). (There are various spellings in Hebrew, anyway, and in addition, this is a proper name.) Yet, one shouldn't go for the spelling but the pronunciation to create cmene. And it even doesn't matter whether one pays attention to modern (ashkenasic) or semitic/sephardic pronunciation because in Lojban no double consonants are allowed, also in cmene. So it only can be {.isaxar.}! Your - almost correct - transliteration "Isaschar" doesn't seem correct; it should be _i(ss)sachar_ (although fully written: jod hireq, sin-dagesh forte, qames(!), sin, (no qames!), khaf, qames, resh). Oh, Lord! Next correction - and not at all solving our problem - here's what I found in a special ancient-Hebrew dictionary: "issas-char (read: issachar) nom. prop. m. Isaschar, son of Jacob and stem". Now what! Maybe .adam. can help. .aulun.