From eks2@york.ac.uk Thu Oct 04 06:43:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eks2@york.ac.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 4 Oct 2001 13:41:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 82164 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 13:41:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.221 with QMQP; 4 Oct 2001 13:41:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.1.34) by mta1 with SMTP; 4 Oct 2001 13:43:48 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: eks2@york.ac.uk Received: from [10.1.10.33] by n16.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Oct 2001 13:43:48 -0000 Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 13:43:48 -0000 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Broken phone status? Message-ID: <9php2k+7nk9@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 3508 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 144.32.128.133 From: "Evgueni Sklyanin" X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 11330 --- In lojban@y..., Invent Yourself wrote: > What will be interesting is hearing each person justify the corruption > they performed. > OK, let us start with myself. This is the text I have received from xod (the numbering is mine): [1] la cmendrik. ca zbasu le kevna be le da'amoi ke fetsi nobli po'u la .alisn,djosel,n. be'o le xance poi ke'a tatpi jebo masno muvdu le xirma trixe stizu [2] .i C cargau le xirma gi'e cusku [3] ``.i ju'ocai do ze'aba bancu fu'idai fi ko'a [4] .i ja'o ko'a masno .a'i xirkla [5] .i ko'a xamgu nanmu je ji'a virnu banli je zmadu fi le kamdarsi fe roda poi mapti pa'e cnemu fi le zumdamba fo ke'a [6] .i mi ba'o dunda ko'a ro da'amoi ke fetsi nobli ke'e tixnu be mi ( inserted to make the sentence grammatical) [7] .i ko'a du la malzgan.'' I admit that after having passed this through jbofi'e and contemplated the result I have become so frustrated that I might allow a fraction of my anger and protest to slip into my translations. Nevertheless, I'll try to articulate my woes. [1] I suspect that the tanru {le da'amoi ke fetsi nobli} "the penultimate noble woman" is supposed to mean "princess". "Penultimate", perhaps, in the row of succession (?). Still, I refuse to accept it for regular usage - too grotesque and counter-intuitive. It might provide a funny crossword definition though (how about that idea: a crossword with Lojban definitions and English entries?). There is little to comment in the rest of the sentence. "The princess" takes 2nd place of {kevna}, hence the cavity/hole is made inside her body. My translation: -- With his hand moving wearily and slowly towards the saddle, Schmendrick made a hole in Alison Jocelyn, the penultimate princess. [2] The only sentence having survived the ordeal with (almost) no damage. -- He turned the horse and said: [3] Why {fi}?! The 3rd place of {bancu} is the criterion of comparison. According to the gi'uste definition it should be a {ka} abstraction. I could understand {mi} taking the 2nd place {do bancu ko'a} as "overtake" though I would prefer to fill x3 explicitely with {le ni pluta clani} or something like that. {mi} as x3 does not make sense to me. Hence, the meaningless translation -- "No doubt, soon you'll easily transcend in his qualities. [4] Someone has mistaken {ja'o} "thus, therefore" with, perhaps, {se ja'e} "results, because of". -- Thus, he is a slow rider. [5] With the both {je} replaced by {gi'e} this sentence would make much more sense. However, {je} being a _tanru_ connective we have a single monstrous tanru {(xamgu (nanmu je ji'a virnu)) (banli je zmadu)} I could not find a better solution than to vaguely translate the first component (xamgu (nanmu je ji'a virnu)) as "valor". Note that in the relative clause starting with {poi} and describing what the protagonist does exceed in bravery the relative pronoun {ke'a} take the 4th place of the tanru {mapti pa'e cnemu} which I translate as "to reward justly/righteously" that is means the thing which constitutes the reward whereas the 3rd place (the activity rewarded) is taken with {le zumdamba} "the fighting". -- In the way of valour, he is great and braver than any deserved battle reward. [6] For the "princess" see [1]. -- I have already granted him to all penultimate princesses who are my daughters. (or, fathered by me) [7] {la malzgan} = mabla + zgana = "Evil Eye" (or "Voyeur"?) Dixi et animam levavi. mi'e .evgenis.