From arosta@uclan.ac.uk Mon Oct 01 07:21:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: arosta@uclan.ac.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 1 Oct 2001 14:19:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 37563 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2001 14:19:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.223 with QMQP; 1 Oct 2001 14:19:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO com1.uclan.ac.uk) (193.61.255.3) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Oct 2001 14:21:07 -0000 Received: from gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk by com1.uclan.ac.uk with SMTP (Mailer); Mon, 1 Oct 2001 14:57:17 +0100 Received: from DI1-Message_Server by gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 15:28:57 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 15:28:39 +0100 To: lojban Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: noxemol ce'u Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline From: And Rosta X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 11227 >>> 09/30/01 03:04pm >>> #a.rosta@dtn.ntl.com writes: # #> "da poi ro de ke'a se -function ro mamta be ro nei" #>=20 #something x such that every y is (in the?) the range of the function x wit= h=20 #domain all the mothers of all the every y.=20=20 # #I'm not sure this describes a function at all. Is y supposed to be the ra= nge=20 #of the function? If so, then there are a number of functions here, one fo= r=20 #each value of y. So we suppose that y is just a member of the range, in=20 #which case what is the value for y -- all the mothers of all the y's. Tha= t=20 #looks more like the domain/counterrange, rather than the value for a singl= e=20 #member. If it is the value then this is clearly not the function I have i= n=20 #mind (and I worry a bit about the {ro ro de} involved) . I still think th= at=20 #what is intended is just {da poi [ke'a] function rode le mamta be de} or=20 #{function le romei le mamta romei}, if just giving range and domain are=20 #enough. And, of course, I think that {le mamta be ce'u} does that nicely= =20 #(notice that, given certain assumptions, this would follow out of the=20 #descriptions given earlier). Well hey, that was only my guess at how you'd use the lujvo to say "the mother-of function": I see now that unresolved confusion about which gadri/quantifiers to use with nei/no'a may have caused a problem, so rephrase to: "da poi ro de ke'a se -function ro mamta be de" =3D "something x such that x is a function from every y to every mother of= y" And tinker with it until it satisfies you. If you're talking about the value rather than the function, then I'd have thought ordinary bogstandard "LE mamta be ko'a" does the job.=20 --And.