From xod@sixgirls.org Sun Jan 06 12:09:21 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: xod@reva.sixgirls.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 6 Jan 2002 20:09:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 63780 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 20:09:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2002 20:09:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO reva.sixgirls.org) (216.27.131.50) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 20:09:19 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by reva.sixgirls.org (8.11.6+3.4W/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g06K9I709998 for ; Sun, 6 Jan 2002 15:09:18 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 15:09:17 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Lojban Text to Speech In-Reply-To: <212FCE8E-02C2-11D6-8F27-000393074A5A@urbanium.tv> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Invent Yourself X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1138703 X-Yahoo-Profile: throwing_back_the_apple X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 12839 On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Candide Kemmler wrote: > It's very sad for me, as I love trilled r's and I also think that they > fit perfectly with lojban. > > However, since I'm definitely not the only one experiencing this > problem, it's maybe even a chance that I'm the one supposed to record > the diphones ! But are actually two people interested in doing the > recordings, and my colleague's mother tongue is Greek: he has no > problems with trilled R's. > > So what do we do ? > > - Do we let Ioannis (my Greek colleague) record the sounds with trilled > "apico-alveolar, fish-hook r's", knowing that some people might > experience problems pronunciating them ? Greek is a fine language for Lojban! Dr. Nick Nicholas speaks his English with an Aussie accent with no hint of Greek, but his Lojban is Greekly accented and it's complete with solid, trilled "r" which are clearly distinguishable from any vowels, and vowels that are clean and straight. I grew up speaking nothing but English, yet I have no trouble pronouncing both trilled "r" of any magnitude, and "x" of any strength. While "x" might be difficult to explain, trilled "r" is really a soft aspirated "d". (Oh how the pedants will strike over such a vulgarization!) Avoiding trilled "r" in the speech samples because some people have problems with them is tantamount to drifting the language away from their use. In my opinion they are preferred because they are clearer to the unskilled at hearing Lojban (everyone!). And it is best that Americans attempt them because we are notorious for mutilating our vowels, and it's easier for us keep pur vowels straight if there is a stronger consonant edging it. I suspect most of the world can pronounce them. -- The tao that can be tar(1)ed is not the entire Tao. The path that can be specified is not the Full Path.