From araizen@newmail.net Sun Feb 24 04:50:56 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: araizen@newmail.net X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: unknown); 24 Feb 2002 12:50:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 58460 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2002 12:50:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m5.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2002 12:50:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mxout1.netvision.net.il) (194.90.9.20) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2002 12:50:55 -0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([62.0.183.240]) by mxout1.netvision.net.il (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built Sep 5 2001)) with SMTP id <0GS100JBMFOTRM@mxout1.netvision.net.il> for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 14:50:54 +0200 (IST) Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 14:53:19 +0200 Subject: Re: [lojban] notpejgau To: lojban list Message-id: <008701c1bd32$42d11e20$f0b7003e@oemcomputer> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <02022320484235.02774@neofelis> From: Adam Raizen X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=3063669 X-Yahoo-Profile: araizen X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 13402 la pier. cusku di'e > I just made this up for "apostle" and am not sure what the place structure > should be. > > notci: message, subject, author, audience > preja: thing, final extent, initial extent > gasnu: doer, effect > > The effect is the spreading of the message, so x1 of {notpejgau} is the > apostle and the places of {notpe'a} are bumped by one. n1=p1, p2=n4. But > should n2 and n3 be dropped? Can p3 be replaced with the apostle's origin? I think the veljvo is 'notci ke preja gasnu', not 'notci preja gasnu', though perhaps there's not so much of a difference. The place structure of 'pejgau' is g1 p1 p2 p3, and p1=n1, so the whole thing would be g1 p1=n1 n2 n3 n4=p2 p3, minus any extra places. I think that n2 and n3 are probably irrevant, though if they're truly necessary for 'notci' I would be hesitant to drop them. p3 should be the original extent the message is known, not the apostle's origin (the notci is preja, not the gasnu). At any rate, I think that there might be a better way to express this. At first thought I think of 'misygau' (g1 m1 m2), which is simpler since it just has the apostle, the message and the target audience. Of course, in either case the x1 doesn't necessarily have to be a human, but context should normally resolve that. Adding 'sarji' in some way may also make the meaning clearer. Also, I think that someone can still be an apostle even if they fail in their apostlizing, so in some cases in may be necessary to add -toi or -pla to the end. mu'o mi'e .adam.