From a-rosta@alphaphe.com Tue Jun 18 12:36:11 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: a-rosta@alphaphe.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 18 Jun 2002 19:36:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 54072 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2002 19:36:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jun 2002 19:36:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.alphaphe.net) (217.33.150.223) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jun 2002 19:36:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 32462 invoked by uid 101); 18 Jun 2002 19:36:01 -0000 Received: from host213-120-44-244.webport.bt.net (HELO oemcomputer) (213.120.44.244) by smtp.alphaphe.net with SMTP; 18 Jun 2002 19:36:01 -0000 To: Subject: RE: [lojban] "The bowl contains a dozen apples and oranges" Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 20:36:55 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Importance: Normal X-EDATA: smtp.alphaphe.net 1.6.2 0/1000/N X-AntiVirus: scanned for viruses by AlphaPhe.Net (www.alphaphe.net) From: "And Rosta" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110020381 X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 14455 > >> > How does Lojban say that? There are 12 pieces of fruit in the bowl. > >> > Some are apples, some are oranges. > >> > >> le gankabri cu vasru 12 najnimre ja plise. This of course does not imply > that > >> it contains at least one apple and at least one orange, but that's the > way > >> one would normally say it. Or {najnimre jonai plise} if you wanted to say > >> explicitly that none of them is both an apple and an orange. > > >I would use 'joi', myself. > > There are many style differences also. For example, I would say it as "le > gankabri gai najnimre joi plise cu vasru". I don't find any of these satisfactory. Ja is unsatisfactory for the reasons Pier states. Jonai has the same defect. Joi is merely vague. I want to be sure that there is no decent answer that I'm overlooking -- something along the lines of "gai mei be lo plise ce lo najnimre", but ideally a bit neater, cleverer, more xorxesian. --And.