From sentto-44114-14714-1027533220-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed Jul 24 10:54:13 2002 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:54:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.100]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.05) id 17XQKx-00062o-01 for lojban-in@lojban.org; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:54:11 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-14714-1027533220-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jul 2002 17:53:40 -0000 X-Sender: gordon.dyke@bluewin.ch X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 24 Jul 2002 17:53:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 11591 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2002 17:53:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jul 2002 17:53:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta9n.bluewin.ch) (195.186.1.215) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jul 2002 17:53:39 -0000 Received: from oemcomputer (62.202.154.164) by mta9n.bluewin.ch (Bluewin AG 6.5.026) id 3D3E5FFE000165D1 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 19:53:35 +0200 Message-ID: <013d01c2333b$2b1cf400$73a1ca3e@oemcomputer> To: "jboste" References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020723025544.032cba90@pop.east.cox.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20010730221611.00b10c00@pop.cais.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020723025544.032cba90@pop.east.cox.net> <20020723103956.E28971@miranda.org> <5.1.0.14.0.20020723195058.030913c0@pop.east.cox.net> <20020723221537.B26815@miranda.org> <20020724051555.GC18580@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <20020724105238.E9069@miranda.org> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "G. Dyke" X-Yahoo-Profile: gregvdyke MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 19:54:32 +0200 Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: New Members, Board of Directors, other LogFest results Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 244 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: gordon.dyke@bluewin.ch Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list [NB : I hate my incapacity to change the sender to "jboste" every time, sorry Jay for the dbl post] cu'u la djez. > > And there are also currently Spanish gismu, and French gismu in the works. > > IMO, it ought to be of the utmost importance for the LLG to try and end > this English-centrism, and at least get the word lists translated into the > 5 other major world languages. (If not declare it a "priority" that the > reference grammar and such be translated, as well.) > Although you probably all agree about this translation buisiness, I thought I'd just mention the following, in case you didn't realise how important this was (it's rather disorganised, as most my prose usually is, but the idea is that the problems I mention may start disappearing when stuff gets translated): For us to be able to actually do anything with Lojban as far as Sapir-whorf is concerned (as a matter of curious interest at any rate), we need people who are not *at all* anglophones to learn it. We also need people who are not "SAE"-ophones. At the moment, Lojban is (essentially) American - at any rate, this is, more importantly, the way it appears to be. Many Amercains fail/don't believe/don't want to know about the intense dislike of the US (for various political, social and economic reasons) and of anglo-centrism (for social, scientific and linguistic reasons) which occurs in the rest of the world - particularly in non-British Europe. The type of person who goes into Lojban is also frequently the type who has radical and outspoken views on things; and is likely to be put off by the fact that Lojban has been about for (again,what appears to be) 50 years, and nobody has made it available to people who have no wish to learn English. As an example of this attitude, one of the first messages I got from Nicolas Buisson, after I had explained that there was no Lojban material available to people who spoke no English, explained his view that Lojbanists seemed to be satisfied with the audience they had so far and that Lojban would probably stay an American affair. He concluded his mail with "Good luck to Lojban, I'm certainly not going to learn English just for the sake of Lojban, you say that some people find that Esperanto doesn't meet their ideals [I had pointed out to him that we had a few lojbo je spero, adding that some found esperanto disppointing], at least with Lojban, I will never have to go to the bother of finding out whether it meets my ideals or not." This is one ka'e lojbo which I managed to "save", but there must be hundreds like him out there. So anyways (sez I, in truly American declamatory style), translation of stuff into other languages, paticularly na'e ropno) of Lojban material should be made a priority. I've looked at the vocabulary, nearly all chinese words contributed to the gismu, surely they should find Lojban reasonably easy - or even familiar? mu'o mi'e greg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? 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