Message-ID: <C9A98F2128EDD411B0920008C7B337A13DCE7F@hamsem01.de.gedas.vwg>
To: "'lojban@yahoogroups.com'" <lojban@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: I like chocolate
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 09:50:26 +0200
Return-Receipt-To: "Newton, Philip" <Philip.Newton@datenrevision.de>
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From: "Newton, Philip" <Philip.Newton@datenrevision.de>
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la xorxes. cu cusku di'e
> 
> la filip cusku di'e
> 
> >     {mi nelci lezu'o citka loi cakla}
> 
> The article {le} indicates that you liked one particular
> occasion (or each of the particular occasions you have in
> mind) of eating chocolate. To say that you like eating
> chocolate generically, I would suggest {lo'e} instead of
> {le}.

zo'o do ba'e roroi stidi zo lo'e

> Also you can say {mi nelci lo'e cakla} directly.

But then I'm saying "I like chocolate", aren't I? But I don't necessarily
like looking at it, or its colour; it's not an abstract appreciation the way
one might like a picture in an art gallery. Eating it is what I like about
chocolate.

> As for {citka loi cakla} vs {citka lo cakla}, I don't see
> much difference. Some quantity of chocolate, or several
> quantities taken together. I suppose that you like it so much
> that you prefer to eat several quantities at once?

How do you get the "several quantities at once"?

I took the {loi} from a half-remembered notion (I think it was from the
lessons) which uses {loi vanju}, with an explanation something like "one
only drinks part of the mass of all that is wine", or something like that.

>From which I generalised that {loi} is used for things which are not
discrete -- after all, I don't eat one or two chocolates in English; I eat
(some) chocolate (mass noun, not count noun). I figured it would be similar
in Lojban.

So would it be {mi nelci lo'ezu'o citka loi cakla}, then?

And can {nelci} even be used like this? The gi'uste says x2 is
(object/state), not (activity) or (event), so I'm not sure whether {zu'o} is
appropriate here. ("(state)" sounds as if {za'i} is called for -- but I
don't like the state of eating chocolate, but rather the activity.)

.uanairu'e

mu'omi'e filip.
[email copies appreciated, since I read the digest]
{ko fukpi mrilu .i'o fi mi ki'u le du'u mi te mrilu loi notseljmaji}
-- 
filip.niutyn. <Philip.Newton@datenrevision.de>
All opinions are my own, not my employer's.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.