From lojban-out@lojban.org Thu Aug 01 09:15:01 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 1 Aug 2002 16:15:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 24256 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2002 16:15:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Aug 2002 16:15:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2002 16:15:01 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 17aIbN-0001fx-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 09:15:01 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17aIad-0001fd-00; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 09:14:15 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 01 Aug 2002 09:14:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net ([206.13.28.241]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17aIaY-0001fU-00 for lojban-list@digitalkingdom.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 09:14:10 -0700 Received: from there ([216.102.199.245]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with SMTP id <0H06005IOAFKHA@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for lojban-list@digitalkingdom.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 09:14:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 09:14:08 -0700 Subject: Re: [lojban] pedagogy and lojban In-reply-to: <009601c23873$82198420$5a9e03d5@oemcomputer> To: lojban-list@digitalkingdom.org Message-id: <0H06005IRAFKHA@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> Organization: Web for Humans MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 References: <009601c23873$82198420$5a9e03d5@oemcomputer> X-archive-position: 394 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: cherlin@pacbell.net Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Edward Cherlin From: Edward Cherlin Reply-To: cherlin@pacbell.net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 14842 On Wednesday 31 July 2002 02:19 am, G. Dyke wrote: > Hi > > I'm currently teaching Lojban to a Frenchman who knows very little > English (and has no interest in learning it - English, not Lojban). > I'd set out with the idea of translating the lessons, but I don't > quite like the way in which they are presented (in addition to > which, I find them a bit long for the purposes of teaching one > person). > > I was wondering whether anyone had any opinions about the way to > introduce various concepts. I had some TESL (Teaching English as a Second Language) training in the Peace Corps, including a taste of the Defense Language Institute's "wavelet" teaching system. It takes the concept of structure drills a step further. Instead of trying to teach whole branches of grammar at once, it divides the task into a succession of small steps, each of which is drilled to the point of mastery before proceeding further. A structure drill uses a sentence form with variable parts. The instructor gives some cue, and the student utters a sentence in the same form but with some part changed. For example, I: "You are a student." S: "I am a student." I: "I am the teacher." S: "You are the teacher. In the example above, the teacher varies the person of the pronoun and the description. Then the student makes a transformation of the pronoun and copula. A sequence of wavelet drills on this form could start with third person pronouns, then do first and second person singular, then mix all three, then do each case of the plural, then mix all of the forms. In Lojban there are more pronouns but no problem of verb agreement, so the sequence would be rather different. I started to make a list of Lojban language features suitable for an introductory set of drills, but I haven't gotten far enough to present anything. Is anyone interested in pursuing this? > (My ambition is that the textbook be > baselined from a translation of my French textbook zo'o). There is > particularly the problem that introducing small things like no > "la,doi" in names etc is a pain. Do I add a "read more here" at the > end of each chapter or return to each subject at a later > time(achapter dealing with morphology for instance). So here is an > outline of what I have and how I think it should proceed. > > - pronunciation > - three categories of lojban words > - names (practice in phonological adaptation) Don't try to teach all of pronunciation or adaptation of names at once. Start with the easy cases, so that the student has the experience of success to begin with, and introduce more difficult cases after the student has a framework to locate them in. > - gismu as an application of brivla > - bridi structure (put the {cu} in immediately) > - introducing things that can act like sumti : > -- mi > -- do > -- ti > -- ta > -- tu > -- zo'e > -- ko > - getting rid of unnecessary zo'e > - explain elision of cu > - add {la cmen.} to sumti > > > - explain le as extracting x1 place of selbri > - complete cu explanation along with ku > - introduce se te etc as means of extracting other places of selbri > - use them in normal bridi > - introduce fa fe fi > > - attitudinals > - discursives > > - events as means to fill in the sturcture of sutra > > - numbers > - lo, finish explanation of la and le > > - ... > [Yet to be thought out] > - ... > > ma se jinvi do > > mu'omi'e greg I would have created a completely different order, at a much finer grain. I don't have time to lay out even as much as I have done in this vein today, but I'm willing to talk about it in pieces over time. I would start with observatives and attitudinals, and proceed rapidly to variations on a simple sentence, such as mi tavla do [la lojban] [la lojban] starting with two or three pronouns, and proceeding to just a few other languages and topics of conversation, simple tenses, and the use of simple attitudinals in sentences. Then change sumti, and run through the process at a slightly higher level, including some of the elementary place structure manipulations. The obvious next candidate is "klama". :) At some point, after several more sumti have been introduced, one can add selected simple little pieces of negation, abstraction, tanru, quantification, subordinate clauses, conjunctions, and the rest of the apparatus. Every selma'o will require its own sequence of drills, first at a very elementary level, and later in more complex utterances. After running through the simplest cases of all of the fundamentals, come back around and do each category again. Run through a portion of the previous level very rapidly, and then again with a few of the variations and complications added, and so on round and round to fluency. At the highest level, there could be drills along the lines of negated compound sentences or quantifications, and on to all the rest of the full logical toolkit taken out (if anyone wants to) to the Rube Goldberg level. :) A glance through the Refgrammar shows the possibility of hundreds, perhaps thousands, of steps in such a sequence. Finding them is not a problem. Putting them into a usable order that moves along fast enough without skipping over something essential is a real challenge. Of course, drill isn't the only thing needed. Drill can make the use of structure automatic in a formal setting, but then the student needs guided conversations where those structures can actually be used. Games are a good way to handle that structuring. I have to stop now, but I will be happy to take any of these topics up again another time. -- Edward Cherlin Generalist "A knot! Oh, do let me help to undo it!" --Alice in Wonderland