From lojbab@lojban.org Mon Aug 05 14:12:19 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 5 Aug 2002 21:12:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 25994 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2002 21:12:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Aug 2002 21:12:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lakemtao04.cox.net) (68.1.17.241) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Aug 2002 21:12:19 -0000 Received: from lojban.lojban.org ([68.100.206.153]) by lakemtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20020805211219.SUCN4949.lakemtao04.cox.net@lojban.lojban.org> for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2002 17:12:19 -0400 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020805105630.00abe9d0@pop.east.cox.net> X-Sender: rlechevalier@pop.east.cox.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 11:48:48 -0400 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: non-core translations In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020805013928.00ac28f0@pop.east.cox.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Robert LeChevalier X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1120595 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojbab X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 14887 At 09:52 AM 8/5/02 +0000, araizen wrote: > realize that these are just clarifications and should not change >the meaning, but I still have a problem with any changes other than >correction of typos to the baseline list. There are words whose exact >meaning is disputed, and adding clarification could change the >interpretation. For example, there are those who say that 'botpi' is >any closable container, whereas others say it's more like >English 'bottle'. Adding clarification to 'botpi' could decide in >favor of one of the interpretations. I'm aware of that, and any changes I make are below that level. I can't call the corrections I make "typos", because they weren't in fact "errors". But these are differences well below the keyword change for mukti, which was the last baseline change that was made something like 8 years ago. >Also, there are now some translation project of the gismu list. I >think it is important when translating to follow the English as much >as the structure and semantics of the target languages will allow, >since that is the baseline document. If clarifications are added to >the baseline gismu list, translations made before then would become >somewhat not up-to-date. That is of course a problem. Probably the best bet would be for me to prepare a diff listing so people know what changes I have made. But I am pretty sure that nothing I have changed in my file is important enough that it would bother me if it wasn't translated. I am not putting up each incremental change for debate as I make it because it would be time consuming and non productive. I'd rather put up the entire set, when I've In fact, I'd leave the baseline file unchanged except for the fact that then we'll get questions about differences in wording between the dictionary gismu list and the baseline gismu list. When the dictionary is done and released for publication, it becomes one of the trio of final baseline documents, so the differences have to be made official at some point. However, since there is question, I will post the diffs, and put it to the Board to explicitly approve the changes, when I have a set of definitive diff listings. The last thing I want to be accused of is railroading significant changes through in the guise of writing a dictionary, when the changes are only intended to have the dictionary wording be consistent in style. >Of course, clarifications of various gismu are needed, I just don't >think that they should be merged into the baseline document if we >want to call it a baseline document. I think there is room for such clarifications under the baseline policy, just as CLL clarified many grammar points without being considered to substantively change the grammar baseline. And just as CLL was open to debate for several months before it was published, the dictionary files will be open for a long time before they are published. But under the baseline policy, every change must be documented and justified, and these changes will be; I just intend to subsume them all in one single "change", which is what we did when we made similar non-substantive changes to the YACC grammar just before publishing CLL. lojbab -- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org