From sentto-44114-15883-1032465213-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Sep 19 12:56:15 2002 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 19 Sep 2002 12:56:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.86]) by digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.05) id 17s7PI-0005JV-00 for lojban-in@lojban.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 12:56:12 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-15883-1032465213-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Sep 2002 19:53:33 -0000 X-Sender: Pycyn@aol.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 19 Sep 2002 19:53:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 72957 invoked from network); 19 Sep 2002 19:53:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Sep 2002 19:53:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d07.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.39) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Sep 2002 19:53:32 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.10.) id r.125.16ccac89 (4584) for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 15:52:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <125.16ccac89.2abb8510@aol.com> To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10509 From: pycyn@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: kaliputra MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 15:52:48 EDT Subject: Re: [lojban] tu'o usage Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_125.16ccac89.2abb8510_boundary" X-archive-position: 1371 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: pycyn@aol.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --part1_125.16ccac89.2abb8510_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/19/2002 9:39:55 AM Central Daylight Time, nessus@free.fr writes: << > err, but then I can use {pa broda} which the book says is syntactically > the same as {lo pa broda}, and get only one marker >> The book had better say {pa broda} is the same as {pa lo broda}, NOT {lo pa broda}. << I agree that in this case, all these amount to the same thing, but: >> Yes, there are often practical reasons for using one rather than the other (never for {tu'o} so far as I can tell). I was just talking about the truth conditions. &: << There is a difference between claiming something and implying something. This shows up, for example, if the whole sentence is negated. >> Does this mean that {tu'o broda cu brode} and {tu'o broda na brode} both imply that there is only one broda, while {pa broda cu brode} does and {pa broda na brode} does not. That, if true, would be a reason for using {tu'o}. I can't think of any reason to think it is true in Lojban (but then, I have no idea what {tu'o} means in Lojban). --part1_125.16ccac89.2abb8510_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/19/2002 9:39:55 AM Central Daylight Time, nessus@free.fr writes:

<<
err,  but then I can use {pa broda} which the book says is syntactically
the same as {lo pa broda}, and get only one marker

>>
The book had better say {pa broda} is the same as {pa lo broda}, NOT {lo pa broda}.

<<
I agree that in this case, all these amount to the same thing, but:
>>
Yes, there are often practical reasons for using one rather than the other (never for {tu'o} so far as I can tell).  I was just talking about the truth conditions.

&:
<<
There is a difference between claiming something and implying something.
This shows up, for example, if the whole sentence is negated.
>>
Does this mean that {tu'o broda cu brode} and {tu'o broda na brode} both imply that there is only one broda, while {pa broda cu brode} does and {pa broda na brode} does not.  That, if true, would be a reason for using {tu'o}.  I can't think of any reason to think it is true in Lojban (but then, I have no idea what {tu'o} means in Lojban).
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT

To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
--part1_125.16ccac89.2abb8510_boundary--