From sentto-44114-16138-1033144188-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri Sep 27 09:33:01 2002 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 27 Sep 2002 09:33:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.79]) by digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.05) id 17uy30-0002ze-01 for lojban-in@lojban.org; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 09:32:58 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-16138-1033144188-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Sep 2002 16:29:48 -0000 X-Sender: jimc@math.ucla.edu X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_4); 27 Sep 2002 16:29:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 89767 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2002 16:19:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Sep 2002 16:19:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO simba.math.ucla.edu) (128.97.4.125) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Sep 2002 16:19:39 -0000 Received: from localhost (jimc@localhost) by simba.math.ucla.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id g8RGJdf01585 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 09:19:39 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: simba.math.ucla.edu: jimc owned process doing -bs To: In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Jim Carter MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 09:19:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [lojban] Re: interactions between tenses, other tenses, and NA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 1626 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jimc@MATH.UCLA.EDU Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, jjllambias2000 wrote: > la djorden cusku di'e > > It's actually pretty simple: there's no need to do real thinking > > about the sentence: > > - if you can rephrase it as "It is false that: foo", the na is > fine. > > I call that real thinking, and that't exactly what I do to > analyze it. But I don't want to have to rephrase a sentence > in order to understand it. I don't want to have to translate > it in the first place. Perhaps the real issue is that you have to reprogram your semantic analyser for real logic. Mapping Lojban 1-1 into an illogical natlang is going to mangle the result, particularly where "carbon units" are most sloppy in their logic. I've actually gotten into the habit of using Lojban-style predicate logic and quantifier scope (and negation) internally, I remember a case where two friends were discussing, and one said the exact opposite of what he intended due to a botched negation, and I was able to catch this on the fly and "translate", short-circuiting 15 minutes of hot air. James F. Carter Voice 310 825 2897 FAX 310 206 6673 UCLA-Mathnet; 6115 MSA; 405 Hilgard Ave.; Los Angeles, CA, USA 90095-1555 Email: jimc@math.ucla.edu http://www.math.ucla.edu/~jimc (q.v. for PGP key) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/MVfIAA/GSaulB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/