Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 14:04:18 -0500
To: lojban-list@lojban.org
Subject: Re: [lojban] me le cmalu turni me'u panomoi bo pagbu
Message-ID: <20020908190418.GA84375@allusion.net>
References: <F80XsL1c00goZolmRBa0000004d@hotmail.com>
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From: Jordan DeLong <lojban-out@lojban.org>
Reply-To: fracture@allusion.net
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On Sun, Sep 08, 2002 at 06:38:14PM +0000, Jorge Llambias wrote:
> la greg cusku di'e
> > > i e'e do ja'a kakne
> >
> >{e'edai} I think this a case where {dai} should be used ju'oru'e

  mi la greg. tugni

> To better understand {e'e} I look at its neighbours:
>=20
> e'a  permission: you may do it! I let you do it.
> e'e  exhortation: you can do it! I encourage you to do it.
> e'o  request: please do it! I ask you to do it.
> e'u  suggestion: you might do it! I suggest you do it.
> ei   obligation: you should do it! I think you should do it.

erm... {ei} is almost always used to talk about the speaker.
for example:
	ca gunka .ei
means "I need to work", not "you should work".

> They are all primarily oriented to the actions of the hearer,
> though this is by no means a restriction: {do} need not be the
> agent of the bridi, it might be someone else. The speaker
> is the one who gives permission, exhorts, requests, suggests
> or feels that something should be done, it is not the one
> allowed, exhorted, asked, suggested or obliged to do something,
> unless of course the actor is {mi}.

If I say
	do ca gunka .ei
it means that *I* feel obliged that you work.  (Perhaps i'm a
middle-manager).  To mean what you want I think the dai is neccesary:
	do ca gunka .eidai

> >Hey, I just noticed why your texts look so attractive: you've gotten rid=
 of
> >all those unnecessary explicit {.}
>=20
> Exactly :)

  no'i .oi traji mabla zo'o .i mi jinvi ledu'u me'o denpa bu cu melbi
  .i ru'a le ni ri slabu re do cu na banzu zo'o

--=20
Jordan DeLong
fracture@allusion.net

           
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