From pycyn@aol.com Tue Sep 10 13:29:19 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: Pycyn@aol.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 10 Sep 2002 20:29:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 80723 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2002 20:29:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Sep 2002 20:29:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m10.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.165) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Sep 2002 20:29:18 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.10.) id r.8a.1e1a7e6a (4320) for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 16:29:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8a.1e1a7e6a.2aafb013@aol.com> Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 16:29:07 EDT Subject: Re: [lojban] word for "www" (was: Archive location.) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_8a.1e1a7e6a.2aafb013_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10509 From: pycyn@aol.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=2455001 X-Yahoo-Profile: kaliputra X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 15491 --part1_8a.1e1a7e6a.2aafb013_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/10/2002 2:24:06 PM Central Daylight Time, cqx@nefud.org writes: << > I'd like to point out that a "book" is a physical object. > >> Not obviously. The physical object contains the book, on one perfectly normal sense of "book," but is not the book. Note that the same book can exist in many different media -- physical forms. None of this makes {ralcukta} more or less plausibly a good lujvo for the Web or internet or.... << "The Web" is an abstraction. The "web" as it "exists" is nothing more than information sources (webservers, whatever) connected by *an* "internet". The "internet" is nothing more than the inter-connection of local networks to a larger network. >> Also not obviously. If all its components are physical objects, as they sem to be in this description, how is the whole not physical? I suppose that you mean that it is the principle of organization, not what is organized, that is the Web, but I don't see that that corresponds to normal usage -- the Web I know is the sites I go to. << So, that said, "www" could be thought of as: [information sources] [linked by network (electronic, carrier pigeon, whatever)] ( i can't think of good lujvo for the above bracketed concepts at the moment, sorry. ) >> A relief. This would be another literalist lujvo (i.e., no one has yet had the wit to come up with a snappy metaphor). << I vote for leaving 'cukta' implying a physical object. 'cukta dinju' => ckudi'u ~= "library" maybe something like: ckudi'u + [network linking concept] >> Not red hot -- even in literalist terms -- for "library," except for the place down the road that contains the library. Many libraries are not so contained, some being in just one room, others being spread over many buildings. And the compound sounds more like inter-library loan than anything to do with the Web (which, I thought you'd held, didn't contain books). Sorry if this sounds harsh; I think I am infected by the parallel discussion. --part1_8a.1e1a7e6a.2aafb013_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/10/2002 2:24:06 PM Central Daylight Time, cqx@nefud.org writes:

<<

I'd like to point out that a "book" is a physical object.

>>

Not obviously. The physical object contains the book, on one perfectly normal sense of "book," but is not the book. Note that the same book can exist in many different media -- physical forms.
None of this makes {ralcukta} more or less plausibly a good lujvo for the Web or internet or....

<<
"The Web" is an abstraction. The "web" as it "exists" is nothing
more than information sources (webservers, whatever) connected
by *an* "internet". The "internet" is nothing more than the inter-connection
of local networks to a larger network.
>>

Also not obviously. If all its components are physical objects, as they sem to be in this description, how is the whole not physical? I suppose that you mean that it is the principle of organization, not what is organized, that is the Web, but I don't see that that corresponds to normal usage -- the Web I know is the sites I go to.

<<
So, that said, "www" could be thought of as:

[information sources] [linked by network (electronic, carrier pigeon, whatever)]

( i can't think of good lujvo for the above bracketed concepts at the moment, sorry. )
>>

A relief. This would be another literalist lujvo (i.e., no one has yet had the wit to come up with a snappy metaphor).

<<
I vote for leaving 'cukta' implying a physical object.

'cukta dinju' => ckudi'u ~= "library"

maybe something like: ckudi'u + [network linking concept]
>>
Not red hot -- even in literalist terms -- for "library," except for the place down the road that contains the library. Many libraries are not so contained, some being in just one room, others being spread over many buildings. And the compound sounds more like inter-library loan than anything to do with the Web (which, I thought you'd held, didn't contain books).

Sorry if this sounds harsh; I think I am infected by the parallel discussion. --part1_8a.1e1a7e6a.2aafb013_boundary--