Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 28 Sep 2002 01:35:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.100]) by digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.05) id 17vD4J-0006Ni-01 for lojban-in@lojban.org; Sat, 28 Sep 2002 01:35:19 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-16174-1033201923-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Sep 2002 08:32:03 -0000 X-Sender: Pycyn@aol.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_4); 28 Sep 2002 08:32:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 35867 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2002 08:32:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Sep 2002 08:32:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m02.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.5) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Sep 2002 08:32:03 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id r.15a.14db2e6a (4539) for ; Sat, 28 Sep 2002 04:31:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <15a.14db2e6a.2ac6c2fb@aol.com> To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10509 From: pycyn@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: kaliputra MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 04:31:55 EDT Subject: [lojban] Re: interactions between tenses, other tenses, and NA Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_15a.14db2e6a.2ac6c2fb_boundary" X-archive-position: 1662 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: pycyn@aol.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list Content-Length: 3574 Lines: 79 --part1_15a.14db2e6a.2ac6c2fb_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/27/2002 3:39:31 PM Central Daylight Time, jjllambias@hotmail.com writes: << > If I understand correctly, "the usual language of formal > logic" would have something like ~Fab > > This can be described as: > > 1- Negation in front of the predicate > 2- Negation in front of the whole expression > > Lojban does: a~Fb, so as far as negation goes, it either follows > the usual language of formal logic (by 1) or it does not follow the > usual language of formal logic (by 2). >> Officially the Lojban is type 2 -- negation before the whole expression -- that being the usual meaning of the corresponding logical form. However, in those logics that do allow the usual Lojban form, the meaning is usually 1. But even then the internal negation form is said not to be usual, but wehipped out for special purposes (to disambiguate sentences involving Ruwwellian descriptions or for possibly empty worlds). --part1_15a.14db2e6a.2ac6c2fb_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/27/2002 3:39:31 PM Central Daylight Time, jjllambias@hotmail.com writes:

<<
If I understand correctly, "the usual language of formal
logic" would have something like ~Fab

This can be described as:

1- Negation in front of the predicate
2- Negation in front of the whole expression

Lojban does: a~Fb, so as far as negation goes, it either follows
the usual language of formal logic (by 1) or it does not follow the
usual language of formal logic (by 2).

>>
Officially the Lojban is type 2 -- negation before the whole expression -- that being the usual meaning of the corresponding logical form.  However, in those logics that do allow the usual Lojban form, the meaning is usually 1.  But even then the internal negation form is said not to be usual, but wehipped out for special purposes (to disambiguate sentences involving Ruwwellian descriptions or for possibly empty worlds).
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