From sentto-44114-16873-1035915956-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Oct 29 12:47:05 2002 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 29 Oct 2002 12:47:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.70]) by digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.05) id 186dGP-0002Kc-00 for lojban-in@lojban.org; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 12:47:01 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-16873-1035915956-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Oct 2002 18:25:56 -0000 X-Sender: Pycyn@aol.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_2_1); 29 Oct 2002 18:25:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 45623 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2002 18:25:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Oct 2002 18:25:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m05.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.8) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Oct 2002 18:25:55 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id r.1bd.1294954f (3874) for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 13:25:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1bd.1294954f.2af02cac@aol.com> To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10634 From: pycyn@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: kaliputra MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 13:25:48 EST Subject: [lojban] Re: Non-logical (incidental) "if"? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1bd.1294954f.2af02cac_boundary" X-archive-position: 2369 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: pycyn@aol.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --part1_1bd.1294954f.2af02cac_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/28/2002 4:15:51 PM Central Standard Time, lojban-out@lojban.org writes: << > On a distantly related note, how would "in case" be translated, e.g., > "I'll bring a blanket in case it gets cold." I say this is related, > because many people might say the first sentence as "I'm going to the > store in case you want to come along," which is not strictly what they > mean to say. They mean "I'm going to the store, and I'm telling you > this in case you'd like to come along." >> I see how the second of these is related to the "if" discussed earlier, but I am less clear about how it is related to the first "in case," other than having the same surface format. The first is pretty clearly causal, giving a reason for the action in terms of possible (even significantly probable) events. The second does not seem causal at all -- for the event describe, going to the store. I may be indirectly causal for my telling you and thus be like the first case almost exactly. It is not, however, asking you whether you want to go along nor even -- I think -- inviting you to go along. It is at best giving pre-permission to go along, possibly as much as "and you are welcome to come along." --part1_1bd.1294954f.2af02cac_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/28/2002 4:15:51 PM Central Standard Time, lojban-out@lojban.org writes:

<<

On a distantly related note, how would "in case" be translated, e.g.,
"I'll bring a blanket in case it gets cold." I say this is related,
because many people might say the first sentence as "I'm going to the
store in case you want to come along," which is not strictly what they
mean to say. They mean "I'm going to the store, and I'm telling you
this in case you'd like to come along."

>>
I see how the second of these is related to the "if" discussed earlier, but I am less clear about how it is related to the first "in case," other than having the same surface format. The first is pretty clearly causal, giving a reason for the action in terms of possible (even significantly probable) events. The second does not seem causal at all -- for the event describe, going to the store. I may be indirectly causal for my telling you and thus be like the first case almost exactly. It is not, however, asking you whether you want to go along nor even -- I think -- inviting you to go along. It is at best giving pre-permission to go along, possibly as much as "and you are welcome to come along."

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