From Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de Tue Oct 01 12:36:44 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_4); 1 Oct 2002 19:36:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 90163 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2002 19:36:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Oct 2002 19:36:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.72) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Oct 2002 19:36:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.154] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Oct 2002 19:36:44 -0000 Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 19:36:43 -0000 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: gizmu Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <001001c26970$fc618ba0$8beef8c1@ftiq2awxk6> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1801 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "A.W.T." X-Originating-IP: 212.144.110.99 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=37407270 X-Yahoo-Profile: aolung X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 16284 --- In lojban@y..., "Lionel Vidal" wrote: > What you describe with {gismu} is not restricted to anglicization > but is a general phonetic behaviour, present in numerous natlangs. > It is called in phonetic linguistic 'partial assimilation'=20 > (I hope I translated well this technical term :-): > whenever a unvoiced consonnant is followed by a voiced one > or vice-versa the natural tendency of phonetic organs is to simplify > the necessary vibrato triggering or stopping of the vocal chords, and > to let the second consonnant to partially assimilate the first, that is > the first one changes its voiced or unvoiced character but keeps > its articulation. > For instance in french: {anecdote} ('c' is voiced in 'g') > or {obtenir} ('b' is unvoiced in 'p') >=20 > I see no reason why lojban will be spared this natural tendency. > In french, even if it is usually seen as bad accent to do it, and people > do try to avoid it in formal speech, it always shows in current usage: > human laziness is always the winner :-) This phenomenon is called 'Sandhi', e.g. the change from Chinese 'ni3 hao3'= =3D=0D to=20 'ni2 hao3 is so-called 'tone sandhi'. When reciting the poem 'Reverie' by G=E9rard de Nerval (...que dans une aut= re=3D=0D =20 existance peut-=EAtre...) in French, I was compared to a 'Russian exile' by= m=3D=0D y=20 teacher because of my way of pronunciating the 'x' ('eks' instead of 'egz'!= =3D=0D ).=20 (BTW, you find the poem's sound file on my site www.fa-kuan.muc.de/ AUSAMP.RXML). Sandhi occurs also in Hungarian (e.g. egyszer -> ettszer; eg=E9szs=E9g -> e= g=E9ss=3D=0D =E9g),=20 Rumanian (e.g. nothing to eat: 'nimic de m=E2ncat' -> 'nimig de m=E2ncat') = and =3D=0D many=20 other languages - except for German ;-( I think. mu'omi'e .aulun.