From sentto-44114-16494-1034085419-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Oct 08 07:15:58 2002 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 08 Oct 2002 07:15:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.79]) by digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.05) id 17yv9O-0007lO-01 for lojban-in@lojban.org; Tue, 08 Oct 2002 07:15:54 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-16494-1034085419-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Oct 2002 13:56:59 -0000 X-Sender: Pycyn@aol.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_2_0); 8 Oct 2002 13:56:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 40063 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2002 13:56:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Oct 2002 13:56:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m08.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.163) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Oct 2002 13:56:57 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id r.137.15791ab7 (18707) for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:56:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <137.15791ab7.2ad43e25@aol.com> To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10509 From: pycyn@aol.com X-Yahoo-Profile: kaliputra MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:56:53 EDT Subject: [lojban] Re: a new kind of fundamentalism Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_137.15791ab7.2ad43e25_boundary" X-archive-position: 1983 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: pycyn@aol.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --part1_137.15791ab7.2ad43e25_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/7/2002 8:06:01 PM Central Daylight Time, lojban-out@lojban.org writes: << > Ok; I agree that there is a gramatical difference, but not that > there is a real semantic difference (except perhaps in which part > of the claim is more important (the fact you are happy, or whatever > the other claim is))... >> Nope. {ui [bridi]} is true or false depending on [bridi], and goes the same way. If you are not, in fact, happy, you may be misleading but you haven't said anything false. {mi gleki lenu [bridi]} is true or false depending upon your attitude (happy or not) about the event of [bridi]. Typically, it would also be false if that event did not occur, but this is deputable. But certainly the mere fact that the event did occur would not make {mi gleki...} true. --part1_137.15791ab7.2ad43e25_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/7/2002 8:06:01 PM Central Daylight Time, lojban-out@lojban.org writes:

<<

Ok; I agree that there is a gramatical difference, but not that
there is a real semantic difference (except perhaps in which part
of the claim is more important (the fact you are happy, or whatever
the other claim is))...

>>
Nope. {ui [bridi]} is true or false depending on [bridi], and goes the same way. If you are not, in fact, happy, you may be misleading but you haven't said anything false.
{mi gleki lenu [bridi]} is true or false depending upon your attitude (happy or not) about the event of [bridi]. Typically, it would also be false if that event did not occur, but this is deputable. But certainly the mere fact that the event did occur would not make {mi gleki...} true.
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