From nessus@free.fr Tue Oct 01 10:27:51 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: nessus@free.fr X-Apparently-To: Lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_4); 1 Oct 2002 17:27:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 64793 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2002 17:23:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Oct 2002 17:23:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mel-rto3.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.19.233) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Oct 2002 17:23:18 -0000 Received: from mel-rta7.wanadoo.fr (193.252.19.61) by mel-rto3.wanadoo.fr (6.5.007) id 3D760D7C00F56109 for Lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 19:23:18 +0200 Received: from ftiq2awxk6 (193.248.238.139) by mel-rta7.wanadoo.fr (6.5.007) id 3D8011E600B2C015 for Lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 19:23:18 +0200 Message-ID: <001001c26970$fc618ba0$8beef8c1@ftiq2awxk6> To: "Lojban" References: Subject: Re: [lojban] gizmu Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 19:35:12 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Lionel Vidal" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=47678341 X-Yahoo-Profile: cmacinf X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 16275 And: > Out of curiosity, I wonder to what extent Lojbanists anglicize > the pronunciation of Lojban words when used in English. > For example, I unconsciously anglicize _gismu_ to /gizmu/. > (I have other strange mispronunciations too, but they are >not obvious anglicizations.) What you describe with {gismu} is not restricted to anglicization but is a general phonetic behaviour, present in numerous natlangs. It is called in phonetic linguistic 'partial assimilation' (I hope I translated well this technical term :-): whenever a unvoiced consonnant is followed by a voiced one or vice-versa the natural tendency of phonetic organs is to simplify the necessary vibrato triggering or stopping of the vocal chords, and to let the second consonnant to partially assimilate the first, that is the first one changes its voiced or unvoiced character but keeps its articulation. For instance in french: {anecdote} ('c' is voiced in 'g') or {obtenir} ('b' is unvoiced in 'p') I see no reason why lojban will be spared this natural tendency. In french, even if it is usually seen as bad accent to do it, and people do try to avoid it in formal speech, it always shows in current usage: human laziness is always the winner :-) -- Lionel