From a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Thu Oct 17 13:30:45 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_2_1); 17 Oct 2002 20:30:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 73945 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2002 20:30:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Oct 2002 20:30:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Oct 2002 20:30:45 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 182HMo-0008Ff-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:35:38 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 182HLl-0008Ef-00; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:34:33 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:34:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailbox-15.st1.spray.net ([212.78.202.115]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 182HLa-0008EA-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:34:22 -0700 Received: from oemcomputer (host213-121-67-132.surfport24.v21.co.uk [213.121.67.132]) by mailbox-15.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED78E217BE for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:28:56 +0200 (DST) To: Subject: [lojban] Re: brivla for 'intend' Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 21:30:44 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20021015160444.B65946-100000@granite.thestonecutters.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-archive-position: 2250 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: "And Rosta" Reply-To: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=122260811 X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 16732 xod: > ..oiru'e vu'enairu'edai mu'i ma do du'eroi sisku le ka ce'u satci velfanva > be fi le banrglico goi G If I'm translating, that's part of what translation involves. Also, I like to feel that in certain key things (such as 'logicality') Lojban is at least as good as English. But in this particular instance, as I tried to make clear in my message, the reason was la'e zoi zoi ba'e ti'e, intention is a psychological primitive (i.e. doesn't reduce to a complex of other notions) zoi > ..i pe'i xamgu fa le du'u da poi valsi fi le lojbo cu na'eka'e satci mapti > de poi valsi fi G ku'o soi I quite agree. I certainly wouldn't expect Lojban to be able to lexically distinguish the nuanced distinctions among, say, dweebs, nerds, berks and twerps. But I would expect Lojban vocab to cover the basic range of concepts one needs for ordinary communication, especially those that aren't readily nameable by lujvo or fuhivla. > .i ganai na go'i gi L na vlipa .i pe'a drata ke > smuni selci ve'e le sidbo canlu That's all well and good, but (a) if there's a concept I can express in English, I'd like to be able to express it in Lojban too, and it is legitimate to wonder whether one must resort to fuhivla in such cases, and (b) I'm here talking about expressing basic translinguistic concepts here, on a level analogous with, say, {troci}. --And. > > > > On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, And Rosta wrote: > > > [2nd attempt to send; sorry if first arrives tomorrow] > > > > What is the best brivla for "x intends that p, x intends to p", given that > > intention does not entail action (or deliberate inaction) and that, > ba'e ti'e, > > intention is a psychological primitive (i.e. doesn't reduce to a complex of > > other notions)? > > {selzilterzukte} is a bit of a mouthful, and won't easily crunch > down to form > > other lujvo, and furthermore, what one's goals are is not quite the > same as what > > one intends. For example, one can intend something whose natural > tendency is to > > occur unless actively prevented, so long as one decides not to > prevent it. But I > > wouldn't describe that as one's goal. > > --And. > > > > -- > Henry McCullers, an affable Plano, TX-area anti-Semite, praised the > Jewish people Monday for doing "a bang-up job" running the media. > "This has been such a great year for movies, and the new crop of fall > TV shows looks to be one of the best in years," McCullers said. > "And the cable news channels are doing a terrific job, too. Admittedly, > they're not reporting on the Jewish stranglehold on world finance, > but, hey, that's understandable." > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > >