From a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Tue Oct 01 17:58:46 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_4); 2 Oct 2002 00:58:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 20800 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2002 00:58:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Oct 2002 00:58:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2002 00:58:46 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 17wXth-0001FM-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 18:01:53 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17wXsw-0001Eo-00; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 18:01:06 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 01 Oct 2002 18:01:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailbox-12.st1.spray.net ([212.78.202.112]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17wXss-0001Ed-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 18:01:02 -0700 Received: from oemcomputer (host213-121-68-149.surfport24.v21.co.uk [213.121.68.149]) by mailbox-12.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 903305C447; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 02:57:19 +0200 (DST) To: , Subject: [lojban] Re: xoi'a Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 01:58:55 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <20021001145930.L85859-100000@granite.thestonecutters.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Importance: Normal X-archive-position: 1800 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: "And Rosta" Reply-To: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=122260811 X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 16289 Hope sez: > Rosta, care to elaborate? I agree with the ZAhO point. Xod, I don't mind being referred to as la rosta, but doi rosta transports me back to the macho homophobic boorish days of highschool... > >From the Wiki: > > * xoi'a? [PU]: increasing linearly over time > * la papri xoi'a pelxu: The page is yellowing. > > * xoi'e? [PU]: exponential increasing > * do xoi'e lojbo certu: You're learning Lojban at an exponential > rate. > > * Semantically, xoi'a/xoi'e belong in ZAhO, since they deal with > change in truth over time. For example, co'a is change from categorically > false to categorically true. xoi'a/xoi'e deal with rates of increase in > degree of truth. However, there are several possible rates of increase, > and there is also the possibility of decrease, so I think this domain of > meaning requires some more comprehensive proposal than simply these two > cmavo. --And I haven't had time to mull it over enough to come up with a positive proposal, but we can see change as like movement somewhere along the scale ranging from infinitely true to infinitely false. The change can be either from one defined position to another, or change within a region of the scale in one or the other direction. The latter sort of change can be at a constant rate, or an accelerating rate or a decelerating rate. xoi'a/xoi'e pick out change within the True part of the scale ({xoi'V na ku} and {xoi'V ja'a xi pi PA ku} would give change within other parts of the scale) that is constant or accelerating. The complexity of all this militates against doing it by experimental cmavo and in favour of doing it by lujvo, but otoh just as {jitfa tu'o du'u} is irksomely cumbersome compared to {na}, so { tu'o du'u} might be felt to be too cumbersome for these meanings. (I do wish {tu'o du'u} could be reduced to one syllable. It'd be the ultimate Zipfean saving. Are there any monosyllables still going spare?) --And.