From lojban-out@lojban.org Mon Oct 28 15:12:54 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_2_1); 28 Oct 2002 23:12:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 1515 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2002 23:12:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Oct 2002 23:12:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Oct 2002 23:12:54 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.05) id 186J42-0003YR-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:12:54 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 186J3y-0003YA-00; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:12:50 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:12:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from lsanca2-ar28-4-47-250-140.lsanca2.dsl-verizon.net ([4.47.250.140] helo=surreality.us ident=mail) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 186J3u-0003Y1-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:12:46 -0800 Received: from surreality ([127.0.0.1] helo=surreality.us ident=rizen) by surreality.us with smtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 186IyD-00032i-00 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:06:53 -0800 Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:06:40 -0800 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: Non-logical (incidental) "if"? Message-Id: <20021028150640.5f007a9b.rizen@surreality.us> In-Reply-To: <20021028221235.GA667@aerosol> References: <20021028221235.GA667@aerosol> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.5 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg="pgp-sha1"; boundary="=.9GVzF8TDIchyPj" X-archive-position: 2355 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: rizen@surreality.us Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Theodore Reed From: Theodore Reed Reply-To: rizen@surreality.us X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 16837 --=.9GVzF8TDIchyPj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 28 Oct 2002 17:12:36 -0500 Randall Nortman wrote: > How would this be translated into Lojban: > > I'm going to the store if you want to come along. > > This is clearly not a logical if-then statement. This is, "I'm going > to the store now, which is relevant to your decision to go to the > store because my going to the store makes it more convenient for you > to go to the store." Of course, one could just say: > > mi klama le zarci .i xu do klama > > But this does not fully capture the sentiment of the English. Is > there a more elegant way? > > On a distantly related note, how would "in case" be translated, e.g., > "I'll bring a blanket in case it gets cold." I say this is related, > because many people might say the first sentence as "I'm going to the > store in case you want to come along," which is not strictly what they > mean to say. They mean "I'm going to the store, and I'm telling you > this in case you'd like to come along." Er... what other meanings can "I'm going to the store if you want to come along" have, other than "If you want to come with me, I'll go to the store. (Otherwise, I won't.)" or "I'm going to the store, and I'm telling you this in case you'd like to come along. (or perhaps "I'm telling you this because you might want to come along")"? -- Theodore Reed (rizen/bancus) -==- http://surreality.us:8080/~rizen/ ~GPG/PGP Signed/Encrypted Mail Preferred; Finger me for my public key!~ "I read my note again today: "Do something important." Once again, I'm at a loss." -- Brandon Mechtley --=.9GVzF8TDIchyPj Content-Type: application/pgp-signature [Attachment content not displayed.] --=.9GVzF8TDIchyPj--