From sentto-44114-16306-1033501004-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Oct 01 12:42:02 2002 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 01 Oct 2002 12:42:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.70]) by digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.05) id 17wSu6-0008RL-01 for lojban-in@lojban.org; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 12:41:59 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-16306-1033501004-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Oct 2002 19:36:45 -0000 X-Sender: Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_4); 1 Oct 2002 19:36:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 90163 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2002 19:36:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Oct 2002 19:36:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.72) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Oct 2002 19:36:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.154] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Oct 2002 19:36:44 -0000 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <001001c26970$fc618ba0$8beef8c1@ftiq2awxk6> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "A.W.T." X-Originating-IP: 212.144.110.99 X-Yahoo-Profile: aolung MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 19:36:43 -0000 Subject: [lojban] Re: gizmu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 1795 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --- In lojban@y..., "Lionel Vidal" wrote: > What you describe with {gismu} is not restricted to anglicization > but is a general phonetic behaviour, present in numerous natlangs. > It is called in phonetic linguistic 'partial assimilation' > (I hope I translated well this technical term :-): > whenever a unvoiced consonnant is followed by a voiced one > or vice-versa the natural tendency of phonetic organs is to simplify > the necessary vibrato triggering or stopping of the vocal chords, and > to let the second consonnant to partially assimilate the first, that is > the first one changes its voiced or unvoiced character but keeps > its articulation. > For instance in french: {anecdote} ('c' is voiced in 'g') > or {obtenir} ('b' is unvoiced in 'p') > > I see no reason why lojban will be spared this natural tendency. > In french, even if it is usually seen as bad accent to do it, and people > do try to avoid it in formal speech, it always shows in current usage: > human laziness is always the winner :-) This phenomenon is called 'Sandhi', e.g. the change from Chinese 'ni3 hao3'= to 'ni2 hao3 is so-called 'tone sandhi'. When reciting the poem 'Reverie' by Gérard de Nerval (...que dans une autre= existance peut-ętre...) in French, I was compared to a 'Russian exile' by m= y teacher because of my way of pronunciating the 'x' ('eks' instead of 'egz'!= ). (BTW, you find the poem's sound file on my site www.fa-kuan.muc.de/ AUSAMP.RXML). Sandhi occurs also in Hungarian (e.g. egyszer -> ettszer; egészség -> egéss= ég), Rumanian (e.g. nothing to eat: 'nimic de mâncat' -> 'nimig de mâncat') and = many other languages - except for German ;-( I think. mu'omi'e .aulun. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Plan to Sell a Home? http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/MVfIAA/GSaulB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/