From sentto-44114-17015-1036679754-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Nov 07 08:50:51 2002 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 07 Nov 2002 08:50:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.101]) by digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.05) id 189prk-0004yB-02 for lojban-in@lojban.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 08:50:48 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-17015-1036679754-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.198] by n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Nov 2002 14:35:55 -0000 X-Sender: arosta@uclan.ac.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 7 Nov 2002 14:35:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 94830 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2002 14:35:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Nov 2002 14:35:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO com1.uclan.ac.uk) (193.61.255.3) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 14:35:52 -0000 Received: from gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk by com1.uclan.ac.uk with SMTP (Mailer); Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:02:21 +0000 Received: from DI1-Message_Server by gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 14:35:47 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 To: lojban From: And Rosta X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 14:35:20 +0000 Subject: [lojban] Re: importing ro Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 2491 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: arosta@uclan.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list pc: #a.rosta@lycos.co.uk writes: #> pc, #> the main instigator and advocate of the Yes answer to Q1, bases #> his reasons on the way things work in logic, but we do not have #> to agree that {da poi} is restricted quantification; we can decree #> that it is not. Anybody who really wants restricted quantification #> and Option B can create appropriate experimental cmavo for it. #Since so many peple have been kind enough to tell me what I think and have #universally gotten it wrong, allow me to say what I really do think. #1. There are four fundamental quantifiers in Lojban: {ro, su'o, no, #me'i[ro]} (I intend to make sure that the default origin for {me'i} is {ro}, #if it is not already). [...] #Sentences of the form {Q da poi broda cu brode} occupy an intermediate #position, since {poi} can be read either as a restrictor on the range of the #quantifier (the most natural, I think, but I don't insist on it) or as a part #of the predicate to a universal subject -- that is as {ganai gi} or {ge gi} #depending on the quantifier. This seems to me the only question left to #settle. If we settle on the latter option -- the one without restriction on quantifier range & with implicit rewriting to ganai-gi.ge-gi -- then most of the dispute goes away, and we end up with the position that is preferred by everybody who has indicated their preferences -- me, xorxes, Adam, Jordan, & probably others. It seems to me that we might all be able to agree on this for once and for all: 1. Contrary to what Woldy says, ro broda cu brode = ro da poi broda cu brode = ro da ga na broda gi brode This would require a correction to 16.8 or wherever it is that Woldy says these mean different things. 2. The universe is not empty. If we can agree on these two things -- & nobody has spoken out against either of them -- then won't that allow this debate to evaporate into irrelevance and inconsequentiality? --And. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/jd3IAA/GSaulB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/