From fracture@cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com Tue Dec 03 07:54:17 2002 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 03 Dec 2002 07:54:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com ([66.68.125.184] ident=root) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 18JFNE-0006oB-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 03 Dec 2002 07:54:12 -0800 Received: from cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (asdf@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id gB3G02G9050274 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:00:07 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from fracture@cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com) Received: (from fracture@localhost) by cs6668125-184.austin.rr.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id gB3G02ic050273 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:00:02 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:00:02 -0600 From: Jordan DeLong To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: Why we should cancel the vote or all vote NO (was RE: Official Statement- LLG Board approves new baseline policy Message-ID: <20021203160002.GA50086@allusion.net> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20021203030800.03454e00@pop.east.cox.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="8t9RHnE3ZwKMSgU+" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i X-archive-position: 2972 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: fracture@allusion.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --8t9RHnE3ZwKMSgU+ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 01:30:00PM -0000, And Rosta wrote: > Lojbab: > > At 05:53 AM 12/3/02 +0000, And Rosta wrote: [...] > > > > On the other hand, much that is in Lojban is a radical departure fr= om what > > > > JCB was willing to accept, so to him I was a flaming progressive. = At one > > > > time YOU thought that the apostrophe was a radical idea, even > > though all it > > > > did was explicitly display the phonological phenomenon we wanted to= see > > > > between disyllable vowel pairs. JCB never accepted it > > > > > >Alas, I am with JCB on this one. Even when I want to be baseline-compl= iant > > >the apostrophe makes me want to puke. It's irrational of me, but it's > > >an aesthetic reaction I cannot escape. I don't consider the apostrophe > > >to be a fault or design flaw in Lojban. But I still hate it! > > > > That was definitely one of MY innovations, for better or worse. But I'm > > not offended I like the '. Lojban text (when written with .s) looks quite nice. > I have long suspected that JCB was so pissed off at you not just for > splitting the language but for doing it with such poor taste and poor > discernment (from his perspective, at least). I do think that the > average person who knows neither language would, if faced with a > page of Loglan and a page of Lojban, find the Loglan somewhat pleasing > and the Lojban somewhat monstrous. Certainly my aesthetic judgements > are thus. So your crime was not only apostasy but also perversion. So how about you go speak loglan? Seriously though, I've seen loglan text, and it's disgusting. It contains capital letters, periods at end of sentence, etc. Maybe this is a touch of xod's "sapir-whorfism" in me, but to me it looks way too much like a european language (i.e., english). If you meant that someone who speaks one such language would find it more pleasing because it looks more familiar, I might agree with that. I don't see what your point would be though. --=20 Jordan DeLong - fracture@allusion.net lu zo'o loi censa bakni cu terzba le zaltapla poi xagrai li'u sei la mark. tuen. cusku --8t9RHnE3ZwKMSgU+ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE97NUBDrrilS51AZ8RAjW0AKCPL5o2de6j+DNJjryMKb7sJL2cqgCdFF+H EjnsTd3/YjnsZCYyWAK7Jzs= =XHWW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --8t9RHnE3ZwKMSgU+--