From sentto-44114-17574-1039100304-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Dec 05 08:10:30 2002 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 05 Dec 2002 08:10:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.102]) by digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.05) id 18Jya2-0007O7-00 for lojban-in@lojban.org; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 08:10:26 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-17574-1039100304-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Dec 2002 14:58:25 -0000 X-Sender: arosta@uclan.ac.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 5 Dec 2002 14:58:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 39946 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2002 14:58:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Dec 2002 14:58:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO com1.uclan.ac.uk) (193.61.255.3) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Dec 2002 14:58:24 -0000 Received: from gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk by com1.uclan.ac.uk with SMTP (Mailer); Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:23:55 +0000 Received: from DI1-Message_Server by gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 05 Dec 2002 14:58:47 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 To: jcowan Cc: lojban From: And Rosta X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 14:58:11 +0000 Subject: [lojban] Re: response to And Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 3074 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: arosta@uclan.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list John: #And Rosta scripsit: #> Is it just bears, or also other animals? #Sure, other animals too. Including Ocky the hexapodal purple, yellow, orange and bebelled stuffed octopus belonging to my son? #> How about Claes Oldenburg #> sculptures? Are they +furniture +stuffed? #No context for this. Stuffed furniture is much closer to the prototype #than Larry is to the prototype bear. http://artnetweb.com/oldenburg/soft.html #> I. Gismu are defined as broadly as possible (but still with #> boundaries that are in principle clear) #> II. Category membership follows principles of prototype theory rather #> than Aristotelian ones (so boundaries are fuzzy or outright gradient). #> III. For practical purposes, statements should be evaluated in terms #> not of literal meaning but of the meaning that is patently intended to be #> communicated. # # Well, I reject III and can live with either I or II. OK, so I don't think it's accurate to chacterize your position as 'antiliteralist' (which is what I read Nick sas saying). Me, I go for II, supplemented by the observation that the truth of a statement is generally irrelevant to its communicative import. #> I threequarters believe you hold your philosophy on this matter just #> for the pleasure of its perversity. I should know, because I do it #> myself sometimes. But not on this issue... # #Ho. # #But really, claiming "I have no idea what some cmavo means" is just #nonsense at the level of pragmatic meaning. We may not know *everything* #about what certain cmavo mean, but to claim that there are some cmavo #about which we know *nothing* (at the l. of p. m.) is nonsense. I would claim that for some cmavo our knowledge of their 'meaning' at the pragmatic level is so vague that it cannot be distilled into a concrete idea of what it means. #Claiming we know nothing about a cmavo, however, makes perfect sense #if by it you mean that you have no *theory* of its "semantic" meaning. Yes. And I think that's the relevant sense in the currnet context of dictionary writing. --And. To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/