From ragnarok@pobox.com Mon Dec 09 07:50:40 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: raganok@intrex.net X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 9 Dec 2002 15:50:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 74714 invoked from network); 9 Dec 2002 15:50:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Dec 2002 15:50:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.intrex.net) (209.42.192.250) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Dec 2002 15:50:40 -0000 Received: from Craig [209.42.200.38] by smtp.intrex.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id ABE98BB0072; Mon, 09 Dec 2002 10:51:05 -0500 To: Subject: RE: [lojban] g/k (was: RE: Re: More stuff Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 10:50:40 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Declude-Sender: raganok@intrex.net [209.42.200.38] X-Note: Total weight is 0. Whitelisted X-eGroups-From: "Craig" From: "Craig" Reply-To: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=48763382 X-Yahoo-Profile: kreig_daniyl X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 17812 >> At 03:14 PM 12/8/02 -0800, Robin Lee Powell wrote: >> >If you can convince me that garti/karti is worse that kalci/kelci, I'l >> >be very impressed >> >> It IS worse. Indeed, one of the problems with text-to-(computer)-speech >> with Lojban is the g/k distinction. Nora also comments that whispering was >> one of the considerations; I suspect also that we were trying to be >> considerate of other languages that do not make a voiced/unvoiced >> distinction (I believe Chinese is one) >English is another, of course. I formerly rendered /g/:/k/ English- >style as [k]:[kh], but then I had a terrible time understanding Nick >who, following the official line, said [g]:[k]; I heard all his >/p, t, k/ as /b, d, g/. So now I try to say [g]:[kh] -- to my ears, >the /b, d, g/ come out sounding very French. Note that, as with >English, this means that the contrast remains audible when whispering. >(Interestingly, my son said to me the other day "Are you writing to >[xod]?" with a fully voiced unEnglish-sounding (and hence French-sounding) [d], >so he must have noticed that the final consonant in _xod_ is not pronounced in >the English way.) Huh. English is my native language, and I pronounce /p t k/ as [ph th kh] prevocallically and [p t k] elsewhere; my /b d g/ is always [b d g].