From lojbab@lojban.org Tue Dec 10 03:33:25 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 10 Dec 2002 11:33:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 5092 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2002 11:33:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Dec 2002 11:33:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lakemtao04.cox.net) (68.1.17.241) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Dec 2002 11:33:24 -0000 Received: from lojban.lojban.org ([68.100.206.153]) by lakemtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20021210113324.QLHB1248.lakemtao04.cox.net@lojban.lojban.org> for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2002 06:33:24 -0500 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20021210055644.03166600@pop.east.cox.net> X-Sender: rlechevalier@pop.east.cox.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 06:15:36 -0500 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: html tag ethics In-Reply-To: References: <3E04BB7A@webmail.uic.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: Robert LeChevalier X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1120595 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojbab X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 17857 I don't disagree with you, but here is why I want to keep more historical awareness. At 08:22 PM 12/9/02 -0500, Craig wrote: >"Loglan", according to the courts, is a generic term for a language based on >logic. It is also the specific name for a language PROJECT to design a linguistic test bed language. When I refer to the language associated with that project, it is Loglan/Lojban, but the project has always been called the "Loglan Project" even when I am discussing only Lojban. >Lojban is a loglan; so is TLI Loglan, as is Guaspi (which should have >some random punctuation in the name, but I don't remember what), also Plan B >and its parody Plan C. I'll note since And and I were talking about Lojban Mark II, that if I recall which one it is correctly, Plan B was Jeff Prothero's attempt to hypothesize what a Loglan Mark II might be like. If it wasn't that one, then Prothero had another one under a different name. >Lojban is not Plan C, but both *officially* fall under the heading of Loglan. > >However, nobody uses the name "Loglan" except to mean TLI Loglan, which is >*not* the same as Lojban. The official name of this language, in English, is "Lojban - A Realization of Loglan". But who uses official names. > Even you refer to "Loglan", meaning TLI's implementation of JCB's idea, We officially use "TLI Loglan" to refer to JCB's language. If we were to only use "Loglan" to refer to JCB's language, and only use "Lojban" for ours, we could undo the court-ruling that "Loglan" is generic. > >=> using keywords in the meta description tag which is not related to the > >page content" > > >Loglan is certainly "related" to lojban. Some people say lojban *is* Loglan. > >(I think they are different words in different languages for the same > thing.) > >You know full well that's not the kind of relationship they mean. I don't think he does. But the bottom line is that we are trying to cooperate with TLI, not to undercut them (at this stage, they'll live or die without our help), and perceptions can be more important than reality. If we start promoting "Loglan" on our web pages merely in order to get hits from Steven's 500 looking for Loglan, it LOOKS to everyone else like "hype" and "poaching", and will be understood by TLI and by most readers as such. It would be better to negotiate a relationship whereby TLI puts a more prominent link on their page pointing to ours as another implementation of JCB's ideas with an active community, and we put a respectful link on our page acknowledging their site as documenting what we recognize as the predecessor language to Lojban. This is honest, aboveboard, and communicates the way the languages relate to each other. That is the sort of thing I am trying to do with Bob McIvor (and if he and Robin want to work out mutually acceptable wording for mutual pointers along the lines I describe above, I approve) lojbab -- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org