From sentto-44114-17614-1039158557-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri Dec 06 00:19:32 2002 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 06 Dec 2002 00:19:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.65]) by digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.05) id 18KDho-0007Xi-01 for lojban-in@lojban.org; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 00:19:28 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-17614-1039158557-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.194] by n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Dec 2002 07:09:17 -0000 X-Sender: opoudjis@optushome.com.au X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 6 Dec 2002 07:09:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 22416 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2002 07:09:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Dec 2002 07:09:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail005.syd.optusnet.com.au) (210.49.20.136) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Dec 2002 07:09:16 -0000 Received: from optushome.com.au (c17180.brasd1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.155.40]) by mail005.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id gB679Fc16029 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 18:09:15 +1100 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.548) From: Nick Nicholas X-Yahoo-Profile: opoudjis MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 18:09:14 +1100 Subject: [lojban] Re: Baseline statement Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 3121 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: opoudjis@optushome.com.au Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list cu'u la xorxes. > I understand that the Lojban community as a whole is very > pro-freeze, so I raise the anti-freeze voice more than I would > be inclined to in a more neutral environment. I value stability > but I don't like sacrosanct and unquestionable rules. If something > is broken, it should be fixable. I'm against declaring things > not broken by definition. Well, we've said it, so we won't go through it again. We know this to be a minority view, and that it likely will not prevail. I do not want in any way to sweep this dissent under the carpet; but we both know the lay of the land. Still, the freeze is five (more) years, and negotiable; after that, anything can happen, and we'll revisit this issue. I fully expect there will still be experimental cmavo coined during that time. John said conservatism should be a tendency, not an argument in its own right --- i.e. that fundamentalists will need to say explicit why the status quo is a good thing. I'm inclined to raise the bar higher for grammar than for cmavo, and for stuff inside CLL than outside it. > As for seals of approval, the whole thing is so inpractical > that it is probably not even worth objecting to. Are we really > going to set up a comission to which one can submit texts for > review? "Lingve kontrolis" is regarded as a good thing in Esperanto, and is used at the discretion of people. It's not institutional, and is done at publishers' discretion with volunteers. Maybe we should look for institutional parallels where something like this does happen. Doesn't the Hebrew Academy do something like this? It may be impractical; we're merely proposing it as something to happen in five years' time. If no such body arises or survives, then there shall be no baseline-compliant judgements, so there shall be no baseline-compliant texts; and we're back to untrammelled evolution, and the rejection of fundamentalism after the freeze. If you want the language to stay as it is after the freeze, you will feel the obligation to help out in the language gendarmerie (I won't think of it as a police). If not, not. This is liable to abuse and nastiness; I haven't regarded it that way as it has been practiced in Esperanto, but I admit it's practiced much more low key in that language (with the exception of the occasional moral panics like -atismo/-itismo, and the undercurrent of WWZD -- What Would Zamenhof Do?) I thank you for your good wishes for the BPFK itself, and certainly hope to work with you in it. I disagree with you on the issues of conservatism; I do not disagree that a BPFK without you in it won't have much authority. (And yeah, I'll be looking forward to proving you wrong on this or that. :-) You'll get the same chance, although since I'm a weathercock, you may not get the same satisfaction out of convincing me. :-) --- DR NICK NICHOLAS. nickn@unimelb.edu.au FRENCH & ITALIAN, UNIVERSITY OF MELBOURNE, AUSTRALIA. In Athens, news spreads fast: they know everything as soon as it happens, sometimes before it happens, and often without it happening at all. --- Jean Psichari, _My Voyage_. http://www.opoudjis.net To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/