From sentto-44114-17834-1039449041-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Dec 09 08:38:22 2002 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 09 Dec 2002 08:38:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.83]) by digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.05) id 18LQvB-00020k-01 for lojban-in@lojban.org; Mon, 09 Dec 2002 08:38:17 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-17834-1039449041-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Dec 2002 15:50:41 -0000 X-Sender: raganok@intrex.net X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 9 Dec 2002 15:50:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 74714 invoked from network); 9 Dec 2002 15:50:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Dec 2002 15:50:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.intrex.net) (209.42.192.250) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Dec 2002 15:50:40 -0000 Received: from Craig [209.42.200.38] by smtp.intrex.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id ABE98BB0072; Mon, 09 Dec 2002 10:51:05 -0500 To: Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Declude-Sender: raganok@intrex.net [209.42.200.38] X-Note: Total weight is 0. Whitelisted X-eGroups-From: "Craig" From: "Craig" X-Yahoo-Profile: kreig_daniyl MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 10:50:40 -0500 Subject: [lojban] Re: g/k (was: RE: Re: More stuff Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 3345 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: ragnarok@pobox.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list >> At 03:14 PM 12/8/02 -0800, Robin Lee Powell wrote: >> >If you can convince me that garti/karti is worse that kalci/kelci, I'l >> >be very impressed >> >> It IS worse. Indeed, one of the problems with text-to-(computer)-speech >> with Lojban is the g/k distinction. Nora also comments that whispering was >> one of the considerations; I suspect also that we were trying to be >> considerate of other languages that do not make a voiced/unvoiced >> distinction (I believe Chinese is one) >English is another, of course. I formerly rendered /g/:/k/ English- >style as [k]:[kh], but then I had a terrible time understanding Nick >who, following the official line, said [g]:[k]; I heard all his >/p, t, k/ as /b, d, g/. So now I try to say [g]:[kh] -- to my ears, >the /b, d, g/ come out sounding very French. Note that, as with >English, this means that the contrast remains audible when whispering. >(Interestingly, my son said to me the other day "Are you writing to >[xod]?" with a fully voiced unEnglish-sounding (and hence French-sounding) [d], >so he must have noticed that the final consonant in _xod_ is not pronounced in >the English way.) Huh. English is my native language, and I pronounce /p t k/ as [ph th kh] prevocallically and [p t k] elsewhere; my /b d g/ is always [b d g]. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/46VHAA/GSaulB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/