From lojbab@lojban.org Thu Mar 13 15:25:18 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_6_1); 13 Mar 2003 23:25:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 94418 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2003 23:25:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2003 23:25:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Mar 2003 23:25:18 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.12) id 18tc4c-0005B6-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 13 Mar 2003 15:25:18 -0800 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 18tc4T-0004yN-00; Thu, 13 Mar 2003 15:25:09 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 13 Mar 2003 15:25:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from lakemtao04.cox.net ([68.1.17.241]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 18tc4I-0004CR-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 13 Mar 2003 15:24:59 -0800 Received: from lojban.lojban.org ([68.100.92.1]) by lakemtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20030313232428.POBD22825.lakemtao04.cox.net@lojban.lojban.org> for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2003 18:24:28 -0500 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030313174255.034e0c60@pop.east.cox.net> X-Sender: rlechevalier@pop.east.cox.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 17:52:12 -0500 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: spofu skami In-Reply-To: <20030313134052.U85179-100000@granite.thestonecutters.net> References: <20030313183823.GH25165@digitalkingdom.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-archive-position: 4510 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lojbab@lojban.org Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: Robert LeChevalier Reply-To: lojbab@lojban.org X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1120595 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojbab X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 18977 At 01:42 PM 3/13/03 -0500, Invent Yourself wrote: >On Thu, 13 Mar 2003, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 01:22:54PM -0500, Invent Yourself wrote: > > > 'nirna' means things that neuron, or are neuron-like or that do what > > > neurons do, which isn't restricted to Neurons. It seems that Neurons > > > can go into nirna x1, but there are lo nirna that aren't Neurons. > > > > neuron: > > > > 1. Has dozens, sometimes hundreds of connections to other neurons. > > > > 2. Collates inbound data as an aggregate to decide whether to send > > outbound data. > > > > 3. Has a wide range of physical shapes, but generally consists of a > > bundle of goo attached to a long rod of goo with some feelers off the > > end of the rod. > > > > 4. Conists mostly of carbon, with some nitrogen, oxygen, and other > > trace elements. > > > > I believe those are all the major necessary and sufficient features of a > > neuron. > > > > Not a *SINGLE* *ONE* of those points applies to an ethernet cable, a > > fiber optice cable, a small number of networked computers, or a sigle > > computer data switch. > > > > NONE OF THEM. NOT ONE. > > >The gismu definition doesn't list these. How do you know they all pertain >to nirna such that every lo nirna must have them? > >Instead of looking at the differences, you might look at the similarities. Bearing in mind that the word "nerve" long predates our current understanding of the processing in a neural system, nirna would NOT be limited to such a scientific definition. Lojban gismu are generally defined as broadly as possible (for Jordan - the "metaphor" cues are an attempt to force breadth of meaning - not polysemy). I think that a nerve/nirna is merely a relaying component of an information system which transmits signals from one or more sources to one or more destinations (possibly with conditions based on the signals received). It is not even clear that the directionality implied by "source" and "destination" is necessary. Under this broader definition, a transformer, a tunnel diode, and a mechanical relay are also nirna. There was a discussion a long time ago spearheaded by Colin Fine, which stressed the need to keep gismu as broad in meaning as possible, and in fact to USE those broad meanings when they are communicative, and not merely use lujvo instead to match the specificity of language that we are prone to using in our native language. lojbab -- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org