From sentto-44114-19799-1053056418-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 15 20:41:01 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 15 May 2003 20:41:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.107]) by digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 19GW5Q-0002Bp-01 for lojban-in@lojban.org; Thu, 15 May 2003 20:40:48 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-19799-1053056418-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 May 2003 03:40:18 -0000 X-Sender: mathmaniac@hanmail.net X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_6_6); 16 May 2003 03:40:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 33127 invoked from network); 16 May 2003 03:40:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 May 2003 03:40:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.68) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 May 2003 03:40:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.115] by n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 May 2003 03:40:17 -0000 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20030514161316.19351.qmail@web20508.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "sshiskom" X-Originating-IP: 143.248.205.98 X-Yahoo-Profile: sshiskom MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 03:40:16 -0000 Subject: [lojban] Re: le lalxu daplu pe la .inisfris. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-archive-position: 5297 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mathmaniac@hanmail.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list Very late reply to #19444: > I think {xaskoi} has been used for "coast" too. Yes, I checked NORALUJV and found that {xaskoi} is already used for "coast". For "horizon", {tankoi} looks nice. * * * John Cowan wrote: > Like most Irish words, "Innisfree" has initial stress. > I can't tell whether you intended penultimate stress or > simply forgot to mark the irregular stress. Simply forgot. Thanks! * * * la xorxes cusku di'e: > Notice that {vu} does not mean "there" in the sense > "at the place just mentioned". You could use {bu'u ri} > or {bu'u ibu} to get that meaning. {vu} simply means "far away". And I intended "far away". I understand {bu'u ri} is more likely to be what Yeats intended, but Innisfree is far away -- far away from the speaker of this poem, who is now on the pavements gray. On the other hand, what is {bu'u ibu}? Isn't {ibu} a letteral for "i"? > I like {nonkansa} for "alone". {sepli ne'i ...} suggests > that both le sepli and le se sepli are ne'i le ricfoi. Does it? Hmm... I don't know of FAhA enough to say something, but certainly I don't feel that way. > I think {noi} rather than {poi} in all cases. Agreed. * * * Some praises from newbie to guru (zo'o) follow: > It is always difficult to translate poetry. Here's another version, > inspired by yours: > i ai mi cliva je klama i klama la Inisfris Yes, you are right! Lojban has _attitudials_! That was what I (subconsciously) looked for when I wrote {djica}. But why {ai}? I think {au} would be more appropriate. My understanding is that, the speaker doesn't really intend to go to Innisfree -- he just hopes to do so. It's an daydream of a tired urbanite. > gi'e zbasu lo cmalu zdani lo'e kliti joi jimca {vu zbasu} I would write. A reason stated. And it seems I always forgot that Lojban tense is "sticky"... Certainly Korean and English language, which I am familiar, doesn't work that way. Do anybody know of natural languages work this way? Nice usage for {lo'e} and {joi}! Now I understand how these words are used. > gi'e kurji so debyskuro e lo sakta bifce zdani I didn't know that I don't need LE if I have PA. My ignorance. > gi'e ai nonkansa le biclau ricfoi For {nonkansa}, stated, and I think {sepli} sounds better. {biclau ricfoi} is charming, but isn't {le cladu} means "something that makes loud sound"? Certainly forest doesn't make loud sound, but is where loun sound is sensed. > i ba'a bu'u ibu mi lifri lo nunsurla {ba'a} is a nice touch... A good replacement of {cumki}. {bu'u ibu} ki'a. > noi snofarlu le snajalra sagyselzva le cermurta > i bu'u ibu gu'ircai ctemidju gi'e zircai dormidju {bu'u ibu} ki'a. But these two lines are really nice! > gi'e cipni nalci culno cerni Obviously, {cerni} is a miss for {vanci}. Great all tanru phrase. > i ai mi cliva je klama i mu'i bo ze'eku {ze'eku} is astounding. > le snosli sance be le djacu poi darxi le la'urkoi ku'o {be} is better than {pe}, really. I didn't know that tanru unit may have embedded sumti. My ignorance. And r-hyphen of {la'urkoi} sounds nice. > ca le nu mi sanli le dargu a le dagysfe grusi kei > se tirna le condi risna midju sumti linked with {a} looks better than tanru linked with {ja}. I'm not sure about {sanli}. Isn't it too detailed? Does sitting on the bench by the roadway makes any difference? * * * And... yes, your rewrite of poem, as is, doesn't parse. You need {cu} in front of {se tirna}. Better, you don't need {kei}. Just use {cu}. Or if you are very fond of terminators, {kei ku} is what you want. mi'e sanxiyn. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/GSaulB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/