From a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Wed Jun 04 18:43:55 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 95904 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2003 01:43:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2003 01:43:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lmout01.st1.spray.net) (212.78.202.120) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2003 01:43:54 -0000 Received: from lmfilto02.st1.spray.net (lmfilto02.st1.spray.net [212.78.202.66]) by lmout01.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 463611FB6C for ; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 03:43:53 +0200 (MEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lmfilto02.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC64D1082 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 03:43:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from lmsmtp01.st1.spray.net ([212.78.202.111]) by localhost (lmfilto02.st1.spray.net [212.78.202.66]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22420-10 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 03:43:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from oemcomputer (host81-7-58-233.surfport24.v21.co.uk [81.7.58.233]) by lmsmtp01.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF7A21E782 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 2003 03:43:51 +0200 (MEST) To: Subject: RE: [lojban] Re: I saw three kinds of dogs Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 02:43:49 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 In-Reply-To: <200306041920.22875.phma@webjockey.net> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at spray.net From: "And Rosta" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=122260811 X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 20086 Pierre: > On Wednesday 04 June 2003 13:23, John Cowan wrote: > > Invent Yourself scripsit: > > > For most people, there can be any number of stereotypical dogs, and each > > > one they refer to as le'e gerku. For you, le'e gerku is the stereotype > > > itself, of which there can only be one. (Let's not get distracted with > > > the boundary cases.) > > > > I think there is only one le'e gerku for a given speaker at a given moment, > > but it can vary across speakers and across time > > I agree. It can refer to a stereotype, but really means "the typical dog of > the dogs which I have in mind". For me, le'e xelso cu zgipli le'e > relmeiskojgita, where le'e xelso is my stereotype of a Greek but le'e > relmeiskojgita is not my stereotype of a relmeiskojgita but a baglamas or > bouzouki. (I play the octave mandolin and the guitar, so my stereotypical > relmeiskojgita is a mandolin or 12-string guitar.) For you, maybe le'e > xelso cu tafstika I don't really understand. On the one hand, you're saying le'e is semantically regular, so means "lo'e cmima be le'e". On the other hand, you're agreeing it varies across speakers and times, unlike lo'e, and your use of le'e xelso seems not to be consistent with your definition. Why is le'e xelso your stereotype of a Greek, if properties predicated of it are typical properties of the Greeks you have in mind? It yields the stereotype only if the Greeks you have in mind happen to be stereotypical ones. OTOH, I take your le'e relmeiskojgita to be describing what is typical of a certain particular group of relmeiskojgita, viz bazouki, and saying that they tend to be played by Greeks. That seems legit. --And.