From phma@webjockey.net Tue Jun 03 16:23:49 2003
Return-Path: <phma@ixazon.dynip.com>
X-Sender: phma@ixazon.dynip.com
X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com
Received: (qmail 20260 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2003 23:23:49 -0000
Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216)
  by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2003 23:23:49 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO blackcat.ixazon.lan) (208.150.110.21)
  by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2003 23:23:49 -0000
Received: by blackcat.ixazon.lan (Postfix, from userid 1001)
	id 7DA8944A9; Tue,  3 Jun 2003 23:23:48 +0000 (UTC)
Organization: dis
To: lojban@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: I saw three kinds of dogs
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 19:23:48 -0400
User-Agent: KMail/1.5
References: <bbj9r4+jrhj@eGroups.com>
In-Reply-To: <bbj9r4+jrhj@eGroups.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
  charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
Message-Id: <200306031923.48119.phma@webjockey.net>
From: Pierre Abbat <phma@webjockey.net>
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92712300
X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 20073

On Tuesday 03 June 2003 19:09, oskar2379 wrote:
> --- In lojban@yahoogroups.com, Pierre Abbat <phma@w...> wrote:
> > How do you say that in colloquial Lojban? {ci da zo'u mi viska lo
>
> gerku be da}
>
> > is formal, and {mi viska lo gerku be ci da} is wrong because a dog
>
> doesn't
>
> > belong to three breeds at once.
>
> How could the first be right and the second not? They both mean "I
> see dogs of three breeds". The book made it seem like prenexes only
> exist to allow you to declare variables in the beginning and use them
> multiple times and/or in a different order in the main bridi. It
> never said anything the entire meaning changing when the prenex is
> dropped...

{ci da zo'u mi viska lo gerku be da} is equivalent to {ci da su'o de poi gerku 
da zo'u mi visku de} "There are three breeds such that there is at least one 
dog of that breed which I see", while {mi viska lo gerku be ci da} is 
equivalent to {su'o de ci da poi selge'u de zo'u mi viska de} "There is at 
least one thing such that it is a dog of three breeds which I see". An absent 
prenex is equivalent to a prenex with all variables in the same order as in 
the bridi.

phma
-- 
.i toljundi do .ibabo mi'afra tu'a do
.ibabo damba do .ibabo do jinga
.icu'u la ma'atman.